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Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #94987
01/27/08 02:22 AM
01/27/08 02:22 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Darius
People believe what they want to believe. I prefer to be driven by scholarship rather then sectarian biases.


If you want real scholarship, then you should be strongly for testing your hypothesis through research and weighing the evidence. Bring it up to your wife and find out if she would have a problem with polygamy. If she does, ask her if it would still be a problem if the other wives were older women, rather than teenagers. Let us know the findings from your research.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: asygo] #94995
01/27/08 01:47 PM
01/27/08 01:47 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
What does my hypothesis have to do with my wife?


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #95008
01/27/08 04:40 PM
01/27/08 04:40 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
You are blinding your eyes to the context. These were young women who had no say in whether they would be in a polygamous relationship or not. Without accountability there is always abuse.

And you are blinding your eyes to the other problems involved. This is just one of them.

 Quote:
I asked a colleague of mine from Oman for her views on plural marriages, which is allowed in Islam. She praised the practice. One important difference from Joseph Smith's brand is the fact that the first wife must have a say as to who the other wives will be.

The fact that she praised polygamy and that others may praise divorce doesn’t make these practices correct.

As the Wikipedia says, “even within societies which allow polygyny, the actual practice of polygyny occurs relatively rarely. ... To take on more than one wife often requires considerable resources: this may put polygamy beyond the means of the vast majority of people within those societies.”

What is said here is very interesting:

“The Quran immediately follows the verses giving Muslims the right to take four wives with a qualification which has been taken very seriously. Unless a man is confident that he can be scrupulously fair to all his wives, he must remain monogamous. Muslim law has built on this: a man must spend absolutely the same amount of time with each of his wives; besides treating each wife equally financially and legally, a man must not have the slightest preference for one but must esteem and love them all equally. It has been widely agreed in the Islamic world that mere human beings cannot fulfill this Quranic requirement: it is impossible to show such impartiality and as a result Muhammad's qualification, which he need not have made, means no Muslim should really have more than one wife. In countries where polygamy has been forbidden, the authorities have justified this innovation not on secular but on religious grounds. -- Karen Armstrong, Muhammad: A Biography Of The Prophet, p. 191.

Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #95013
01/27/08 11:47 PM
01/27/08 11:47 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Darius
What does my hypothesis have to do with my wife?

You hypothesized that "the major problem with Mormon polygamy is the way in which teenage girls are preyed upon." I want to know if that is based on scholarship, or if you're just believing what you want to believe. Assuming that your approach is scholarly, you must have some kind of data, even anectodal data.

The video mentioned the problem of marrying off teenagers, but it didn't seem to be the "major" problem. So now, I'm looking for your data. My wife would have a problem regardless of the age of my mistress. If you got a middle-aged 2nd wife, do you think your wife will be fine with that?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: asygo] #95014
01/28/08 12:49 PM
01/28/08 12:49 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Asygo, that kind of intellectual dishonest does not impress me. Your question was not a search for data. You are now trying to clean up your act.

Last edited by Darius; 01/28/08 12:49 PM.

Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #95015
01/28/08 12:50 PM
01/28/08 12:50 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Rosangela, I glad you posted the difference with the Mormon practice of polygamy. I wish you would incorporate it into your arguments. Forget the sectarianism.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #95023
01/28/08 04:12 PM
01/28/08 04:12 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Asygo, that kind of intellectual dishonest does not impress me. Your question was not a search for data. You are now trying to clean up your act.

And still we wait for your data. Or perhaps your hypothesis is not based on any data?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: asygo] #95025
01/28/08 05:14 PM
01/28/08 05:14 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Apart from the fact that you are notoriously off-base, it is obvious you don't know the relationship between a hypothesis and data, or the difference between datum and data. This strawman you have created falls under its own weight.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: Darius] #95027
01/28/08 06:03 PM
01/28/08 06:03 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Apart from the fact that you are notoriously off-base, it is obvious you don't know the relationship between a hypothesis and data, or the difference between datum and data. This strawman you have created falls under its own weight.

Despite your lofty words, your lack of data shows the quality of the scholarship you profess. Some believe whatever they want to believe, lack of objective research notwithstanding. Perhaps someday you will realize that you do not measure up to the standards you set for others.

Regardless of my grammatical shortcomings, the fact remains that your claim about polygamy lacks factual support, and your profession of scholarship is hypocritical.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Mormons & Polygamy [Re: asygo] #95029
01/28/08 06:53 PM
01/28/08 06:53 PM
F
fun2believe  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 113
California, USA
Wow boys, way to duke it out! That's the way to really show each other who's right. Sounds to me like the saying is true "your perception is your reality". You are both able to see the same video, and yet come away with such different understandings, hmmmmmmmm..........sound familiar?

And yet we all feel so lofty in our reproach of each other. How proper of you to look down on others, while puffing yourself up.



"Perhaps someday you will realize that you do not measure up to the standards you set for others"

If ever I heard someone judge another, it is with that statement. Now I know this is a HOT subject, and strong feelings are flowing, but please. We are all human, not one better than another, despite what you think. God will judge you, so maybe try not to judge each other.

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