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Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? #94948
01/25/08 10:27 PM
01/25/08 10:27 PM
F
fun2believe  Offline OP
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 113
California, USA
I was raised to believe that the flood was a real event. A world wide full on flood, that destroyed everything on earth, except the people and animals that were with Noah. And as a child it was easy to believe, a big boat full of God's creatures floating around until the water receeded.

However, as I've grown, learned, and been educated about our animal population on this earth, I find this more likely to be a parabell. And for what I would consider valid reasons.

1. Is there a boat big enough to hold EVERY type of animal on earth? I assume that would include ALL landbased animals, plus insects of all types, and any fresh water fish/species. Not only would this boat have to hold all the different types of animals, it would have to hold food to feed all of the animals for 40 days! Now, that seems like a MASSIVE boat to me, in fact, I'm not even sure that with today's technology and materials/craftmanship it's possible. Just the sheer amount of space necessary to house all these creatures is staggering to the mind. And all of it capable of floating, using technology and more importantly the material supplies of the day!

It just seems like it was meant to be a parabell, and not in fact an actual event. Now obviously, since I was not there, and can't vouch for the validity of the story, I'm wondering if the is any evidence for it being either reality vs parabell, with a great lesson for all of us.

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #94953
01/26/08 01:22 AM
01/26/08 01:22 AM
John H.  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Well, if the Flood didn't happen as described in the Bible then Jesus was a terrible liar, or very misinformed. He spoke of Noah and the Flood as being real in Luke 17, when describing what the 2nd Coming would be like. If the Flood was a parable, not to be taken literally, then I suppose the Second Coming of Christ needs to be interpreted allegorically as well.

Also, scientists have done feasibility studies and have shown that 2 or 7 of all of the different kinds of animals we presently have could fit in a space half as large as the space inside the ark described in Genesis 6. With plenty of room left over for food.


"Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe His prophets, so shall ye prosper." - 2 Chronicles 20:20
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #94973
01/26/08 10:23 PM
01/26/08 10:23 PM
C
Colin  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Noah's ark was enormous, you know, so practically it is quite possible: the Bible also says that God himself guided all the animals into the ark while Noah watched - and everyone else watched, too...but weren't persuaded!

At the other end of the scale, you are aware are you not that a wooden structure of the shape and size of the ark has been found in the mountains of eastern Turkey? Mount Ararat, to be precise. It's actually an official Turkish tourist resort, but I'm not sure how well publicised it is there or on the internet - given the ramifications!

As for the variety of animals to fit into the ark, biology shows that species are varieties of types of animals - a very basic scientific point! Were they types or species of animals going into the ark? What does the Bible say?

Have you heard of the South African Adventist zooologist, Walter Veith (of German descent): now, while he turned creationist in the 80's - on becoming an Adventist Christian (and losing his academic post as a result: but he is back in academia a while since then) - have you read anything of his on the topic of the flood and the ark? It's not an emphasis of his, but he must have a viewpoint because he is into controversial Biblical truths.

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Colin] #94974
01/26/08 10:48 PM
01/26/08 10:48 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Colin
As for the variety of animals to fit into the ark, biology shows that species are varieties of types of animals - a very basic scientific point! Were they types or species of animals going into the ark? What does the Bible say?
Depending on where you prefer to lay the level you call type, it could be argued that humans and mice are species under the type of vertebrates.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: vastergotland] #94980
01/26/08 11:31 PM
01/26/08 11:31 PM
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Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
The only thing (I mean the only technicality) I learned in biology class (did it for one year maximum!) is the subdivisions: kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species. Somewhere between family and genus would be Noah's zoo.

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Colin] #94988
01/27/08 02:28 AM
01/27/08 02:28 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Veith covers the animals on the ark in at least one presentation. His bottom line is that Noah did not have to take a set of each species. For example, he only took one set of dogs, even though there are now different species. The speciation happened later.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Colin] #94992
01/27/08 11:04 AM
01/27/08 11:04 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Colin
The only thing (I mean the only technicality) I learned in biology class (did it for one year maximum!) is the subdivisions: kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species. Somewhere between family and genus would be Noah's zoo.
If you put the level at family, somewhere between Noah and now some of Noahs family became orangutangs, gorillas and chimpanzes. If you put the level at genus, well... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_%28genus%29
There is quite a lot of interesting distant relatives in that list...


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: vastergotland] #94994
01/27/08 01:44 PM
01/27/08 01:44 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Why is so important that the flood story must be literally true?


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: Darius] #95007
01/27/08 04:37 PM
01/27/08 04:37 PM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
That depends, Darius, on how well you understand the law and the gospel to be linked to & in God's work in our world's history: both God's salvation and how we relate to God as a race is first recorded in human history with Noah - philosophically and practically; hence it exemplifies the second group event before Jesus' Return.

Re: Is the story of the world wide flood a parabel or reality? [Re: fun2believe] #95011
01/27/08 05:23 PM
01/27/08 05:23 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
Is there a boat big enough to hold EVERY type of animal on earth? I assume that would include ALL landbased animals, plus insects of all types, and any fresh water fish/species. Not only would this boat have to hold all the different types of animals, it would have to hold food to feed all of the animals for 40 days!

In fact, Noah’s family and the animals remained in the ark not during 40 days, but during a whole year.

Gen 7:1 In the 600th year of Noah’s life, in the 2nd month, on the 17th day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

Gen 8:13-16 In the 601st year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried from off the earth; and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the face of the ground was dry. In the 2nd month, on the 27th day of the month, the earth was dry. Then God said to Noah, "Go forth from the ark."

The waters prevailed upon the earth 150 days (Gen. 7:24), and receded slowly from the earth (Gen. 8:3 ff).

Regarding food, nothing prevents most of the animals to have remained under a kind of hybernation during this period.

As to fish, note that the Bible tells us that only land-dwelling, air-breathing animals and birds were taken on the ark (Gen. 7:14-15, 21-23). This website presents a good explanation on how fish could have survived the flood:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c037.html

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