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Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97707
04/03/08 03:03 PM
04/03/08 03:03 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
TV: That is not the way of SDA and you know it. SDA will run the second mile to tell others they are wrong but are nowhere to be seen when this someone else throws a party. No wonder the suspicion comes up that SDA is not regarding them equals, much less as better than ourselves.

MM: This testimony sounds a lot like Ted Farmer.
Sure, but ask yourself, when did you last see adventists in your local area partake on mutual terms with the other denominations activities?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97829
04/06/08 02:58 PM
04/06/08 02:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
TV: They wont care what you have to tell them until they can tell you that you are their brother. To be heard is not a right, it is a privilege. And privileges must be earned. And earning it you do by being their brother. To be their brother you must regard them your equals. In other words, there are no them, only us. Not even Jesus could be our brother before He became a man.

MM: Once you win their love and affection and trust and respect and confidence - then what? Do you tell them they are unwittingly missing the mark, ignorantly breaking the law of God, wrongly believing our loved ones are alive and well in heaven? Or, do any of these truths matter? Can Jesus return while people are still ignorant of these truths?

TV: Once you are good friends, I am sure you will end up discussing your different beliefs, whereupon you can tell what you believe as it naturally falls in place during your discussion.

What is the truth? Are you right and they're wrong and do they need to change and convert to your ways? Does the truth matter? Or, is it okay for them to go on believing a lie about Sabbath keeping and where their deceased loved ones are?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97830
04/06/08 03:13 PM
04/06/08 03:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Quote:
TV: That is not the way of SDA and you know it. SDA will run the second mile to tell others they are wrong but are nowhere to be seen when this someone else throws a party. No wonder the suspicion comes up that SDA is not regarding them equals, much less as better than ourselves.

MM: This testimony sounds a lot like Ted Farmer.

TV: Sure, but ask yourself, when did you last see adventists in your local area partake on mutual terms with the other denominations activities?

In my neck of the woods we do it quite regularly. Every Friday we meet with area Christians to sing and praise God. We call it Common Ground. Every Easter we participate in what we call Holy Week. People from different churches take turns sharing a morning message at different churches throughout the week.

And several times during the year, around the major holidays, our church school, which is composed of kids from several different local churches, put on a program. We fill up the church with families from all over the city and county.

In addition to the community church school, we also run a Thrift Store, Food Bank, Dorcas Center, Nursing Home, Assisted Living Community, Pathfinders, Ski Club, Climbing Club, Rafting Club, and Teen Challenge.

Our church family is very active in the community. We are well known as the church that cares about people. Over the last 10 years, though, only two families have joined our church. We have not made proselytizing our goal, which may very well be the reason why we are so well accepted by the other churches in the community.

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97849
04/06/08 09:00 PM
04/06/08 09:00 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
 Quote:
TV: They wont care what you have to tell them until they can tell you that you are their brother. To be heard is not a right, it is a privilege. And privileges must be earned. And earning it you do by being their brother. To be their brother you must regard them your equals. In other words, there are no them, only us. Not even Jesus could be our brother before He became a man.

MM: Once you win their love and affection and trust and respect and confidence - then what? Do you tell them they are unwittingly missing the mark, ignorantly breaking the law of God, wrongly believing our loved ones are alive and well in heaven? Or, do any of these truths matter? Can Jesus return while people are still ignorant of these truths?

TV: Once you are good friends, I am sure you will end up discussing your different beliefs, whereupon you can tell what you believe as it naturally falls in place during your discussion.

What is the truth? Are you right and they're wrong and do they need to change and convert to your ways? Does the truth matter? Or, is it okay for them to go on believing a lie about Sabbath keeping and where their deceased loved ones are?
Jesus is the full revelation of the Truth about God. Am I right and they wrong about what, more exactly? The truth does matter. If they are to convert to the religion of sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep, then it is very important what they believe about these two issues. But if they are to believe in Jesus, then following the lead of the Spirit will be quite right, moving when and where He leads.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97850
04/06/08 09:02 PM
04/06/08 09:02 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
 Quote:
TV: That is not the way of SDA and you know it. SDA will run the second mile to tell others they are wrong but are nowhere to be seen when this someone else throws a party. No wonder the suspicion comes up that SDA is not regarding them equals, much less as better than ourselves.

MM: This testimony sounds a lot like Ted Farmer.

TV: Sure, but ask yourself, when did you last see adventists in your local area partake on mutual terms with the other denominations activities?

In my neck of the woods we do it quite regularly. Every Friday we meet with area Christians to sing and praise God. We call it Common Ground. Every Easter we participate in what we call Holy Week. People from different churches take turns sharing a morning message at different churches throughout the week.

And several times during the year, around the major holidays, our church school, which is composed of kids from several different local churches, put on a program. We fill up the church with families from all over the city and county.

In addition to the community church school, we also run a Thrift Store, Food Bank, Dorcas Center, Nursing Home, Assisted Living Community, Pathfinders, Ski Club, Climbing Club, Rafting Club, and Teen Challenge.

Our church family is very active in the community. We are well known as the church that cares about people. Over the last 10 years, though, only two families have joined our church. We have not made proselytizing our goal, which may very well be the reason why we are so well accepted by the other churches in the community.
I wish your situation would be mine aswell.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97858
04/07/08 02:12 AM
04/07/08 02:12 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
TV: Jesus is the full revelation of the Truth about God. Am I right and they wrong about what, more exactly?

MM: Are they right or wrong where their views disagree with the 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church.

TV: The truth does matter. If they are to convert to the religion of sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep, then it is very important what they believe about these two issues.

MM: Are Sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep truth?

TV: But if they are to believe in Jesus, then following the lead of the Spirit will be quite right, moving when and where He leads.

MM: True. But going back to what we were talking about before - Once you win their love and affection and trust and respect and confidence - then what? Do you tell them they are unwittingly missing the mark, ignorantly breaking the law of God, wrongly believing our loved ones are alive and well in heaven? Do either one of these two truths matter? Can Jesus return while people are still ignorant of these two truths?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97865
04/07/08 06:57 AM
04/07/08 06:57 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
TV: Jesus is the full revelation of the Truth about God. Am I right and they wrong about what, more exactly?

MM: Are they right or wrong where their views disagree with the 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church.
Not all of the 28 are equal IMO.
 Quote:

TV: The truth does matter. If they are to convert to the religion of sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep, then it is very important what they believe about these two issues.

MM: Are Sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep truth?
Truth but not THE foundational most important truth.
 Quote:

TV: But if they are to believe in Jesus, then following the lead of the Spirit will be quite right, moving when and where He leads.

MM: True. But going back to what we were talking about before - Once you win their love and affection and trust and respect and confidence - then what? Do you tell them they are unwittingly missing the mark, ignorantly breaking the law of God, wrongly believing our loved ones are alive and well in heaven? Do either one of these two truths matter? Can Jesus return while people are still ignorant of these two truths?
Why could He not? Almost noone understood what He was about the first time around.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: vastergotland] #97868
04/07/08 02:30 PM
04/07/08 02:30 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, it sounds like you're not concerned about whether or not people accept the truth regarding imitating Jesus' example in keeping the Sabbath and believing in soul-sleep.

If it doesn't matter if people break the Sabbath or don't believe in soul-sleep, like Jesus did, what is Jesus waiting for? Why hasn't He returned yet? To break one commandment is to break them all, so why wait? So long as everyone chooses for or against believing Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, it shouldn't matter if they keep or break this or that commandment, right? If not sinning is not important, why wait?

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97869
04/07/08 02:36 PM
04/07/08 02:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thomas, the following insights lead me to believe it is important for people to understand the truth about Sabbath-keeping and soul-sleep:

LDE 157
The saints must get a thorough understanding of present truth, which they will be obliged to maintain from the Scriptures. They must understand the state of the dead, for the spirits of devils will yet appear to them, professing to be beloved friends and relatives, who will declare to them that the Sabbath has been changed, also other unscriptural doctrines.--EW 87 (1854). {LDE 156.3}

The apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth. They deny the divine origin of the Bible.--GC 557 (1911). {LDE 157.1}

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome.--GC 588 (1911). {LDE 157.2}

Persons will arise pretending to be Christ Himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing, and will profess to have revelations from heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. . . . {LDE 157.3}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures. His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast and his image, the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out.--GC 624, 625 (1911). {LDE 157.4}

Re: "We Have No Sin" [Re: Mountain Man] #97875
04/07/08 03:54 PM
04/07/08 03:54 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Thomas, it sounds like you're not concerned about whether or not people accept the truth regarding imitating Jesus' example in keeping the Sabbath and believing in soul-sleep.

If it doesn't matter if people break the Sabbath or don't believe in soul-sleep, like Jesus did, what is Jesus waiting for? Why hasn't He returned yet? To break one commandment is to break them all, so why wait? So long as everyone chooses for or against believing Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, it shouldn't matter if they keep or break this or that commandment, right? If not sinning is not important, why wait?
As I cannot make anyone accpet or reject sabbath or soul-sleep, being over the edge concerned with it seems like a waste of time to me. Bring the person to Jesus and He will teach them all that they need to know. I have not been called to gather diciples of my own, merely to introduce others to the Lord. He will call them as His own diciples in due time. The Lord is Jesus and not any right belief about any subject, including sabbath or souls. So why does Jesus wait? Peter was of the opinion that Jesus waits until such a time when no more people will choose Life. Obviously there are still people who are willing to choose God if they are introduced to Him.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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