I am seeing more and more members letting go of the truth and the attributes seems to be letting go of the Sabbath, and stop believing in the testimonies given through the Spirit of Prophecy, and then a hardening of the heart against the truth that they once loved. So I beleive its on us full force, with many not even aware or with any understanding of its destructive purpose......Here are some points that I came across..

1 - False theories to destroy truth.

"When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. . . Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth."-Testimonies to Ministers, 112:1.

"The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith." -Evangelism, 224:3.

2 - The shaking occurs when the truth is refused.

"There is to be a shaking among God's people; but this is not the present truth to carry to the churches. It will be the result of refusing the truth presented." -2 Selected Messages, 13:1.

"The Lord is soon to come. There must be a refining, winnowing process in every church, for there are among us wicked men who do not love the truth or honor God."-Review, March 19, 1895.

"Not having received the love of the truth, they will be taken in the delusions of the enemy; they will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils and will depart from the faith."-6 Testimonies, 401 :0.

3 - The rejection of the straight testimony brings the shaking.

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. "-Early Writings, 270:2.

"The Lord calls for a renewal of the straight testimony borne in years past. He calls for a renewal of spiritual life. The spiritual energies of His people have long been torpid, but there is to be a resurrection from apparent death. By prayer and confession of sin we must clear the King's highway." -8 Testimonies, 297:5-6].

"One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan's banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God's Spirit." -3 Selected Messages, 84:3.

"The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. 'Where there is no vision, the people perish,' (Proverbs 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony. "-1 Selected Messages, 48:3.

"The enemy has made his masterly efforts to unsettle the faith of our own people in the Testimonies. This is just as Satan designed it should be, and those who have been preparing the way for the people to pay no heed to the warnings and reproofs of the Testimonies of the Spirit of God will see that a tide of errors of all kinds will spring to life." - 3 Selected Messages, 83:3-4.

"It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction,"-4 Testimonies, 211:1.

4 - Disobedience brings the shaking.

"The history of the rebellion of Dathan and Abiram is being repeated, and will be repeated till the close of time. Who will be on the Lord's side? Who will be deceived, and in their turn become deceivers?" -Letter 15, 1892.

"The shaking of God blows away multitudeslike dry leaves."- 4 Testimonies, 89:2.


Now here is something that really left me thinking.............

In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. They are self-sufficient, independent of God, and He cannot use them. The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be disclosed to view. There are preciousones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the daytime we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster.

"The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death." -5 Testimonies, 80:1- 81:1.


"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position, and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren. When Sabbathkeepers are brought before the courts to answer for their faith, these apostates are the most efficient agents of Satan to misrepresent and accuse them, and by false reports and insinuations to stir up the rulers against them."-Great Controversy, 608:2.


"Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were Immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks,"-Early Writings, 271:1.

Did you read all of these documents in their entierity when compiling this document Richard?

Bring them as you see fit, so we can study them in case there was something missed.......

It was a question that can be answered with a yes or a no.

Somehow I dont think so, it feels more like.. dont like the message, attack the messenger....

I could ask, are we to let ourselves be governed by what we know or by what we feel about that which we know?

I will also add, I cannot dislike the message due to not knowing what it is which in turn is due to the method of its delivery. Out of ten people who use Ellen to compile "infomation" such as you have done above, 9.5 or more ignore context hoping that the audience wont do background checks as that makes for so much more smooth "messages". Not having looking further at this particular case, it is possible that you belong to the 0.5 or that you just cut and paste someone elses compilation. The later would of course have been made clear had you simply decided to reply rather than to play guessing games.

So my brother, if I give you I say its in chapter and verse John 1:1, or "Great Controversy, 608:2.", that just isnt enough for you to look it up......?

I think you are just trying to nip at the messenger, and disregard the message with excuses......

Most of your quotes are 1-3 sentences long but looking for context takes chapters to read for each quote. I currently have no time for that. I am sorry you were unable to answer my simple question. Perhaps your silence is an indication that you have indeed not read the contexts. In any case, there is nothing more to say in this thread. To each his own...

Then why go after the messenger if it was nothing, dig into the truth being brought and see what is there.....

If there is any question on context, bring it up and we can all look at it together. Thats how it should be done as a norm if the passages are in question, not try to taint by implication...

As I said, not really knowing what the message is, I have said nothing regarding it. It is the method used for delivering it (and for forming it?) that is my concern. IMO, this kind of prooftext approach comes just after the guy who introduces himself as "habitual lier" on a reliability scale (based on experience, almost every time I have taken time to look things up, original context tears whatever plot being pushed to shreads. Even if the plot itself is true and sound, it usually cannot be supported by this way in general and by the quotes used in particular).

Even if you were given the whole chapter or book to read, I am afraid you would find a excuse or dodge to reject what is a very clear message.......

I could find the books to read for myself. What I asked and what you still have declined to comment upon is wether you read those books and documents for yourself and thus can answer for their responcible quoting yourself.

Ah, these are all (bar one "letter") official compilations: the wider context may not be much bigger than the bit quoted here...: I'll check if my hardcopies include one or two of these books.

Thomas, don't you trust the White Estate? - or is the concentrated SOP as abbreviated in the thematic compilations just too direct a statement? Don't you take this compiled, quoted summary as clear enough a message? - do you require the entire context? - that may not be available in the referenced books: isn't the White Estate trying to save you some superfluous research, or don't you think the point made by these quotes is correct.

I'll definitely stop here!;:-)

I have quite a extensive selection of EGW books available and have read them, and can check to see if I am missing any that were published, but you can check http://www.whiteestate.org/ or other online resources if you want to validate.

The context is then not to be found in the books referenced but in the documents the original cutters and pasters stole it from. To compile books for me? No I dont.A direct statement it might look like but is it one that would get Ellens or Gods approval? Not until I am satisfied that it is a true message.Context makes miralces with arguments based on prooftexting. Just one month ago, someone wanted to use this quote:

Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

to gain Ellens support for a works based teaching on righteousness. The problem centers on ignoring the previous definitions given:

There can be no growth or fruitfulness in the life that is centered in self. If you have accepted Christ as a personal Saviour, you are to forget yourself, and try to help others. Talk of the love of Christ, tell of His goodness. Do every duty that presents itself. Carry the burden of souls upon your heart, and by every means in your power seek to save the lost. As you receive the Spirit of Christ--the Spirit of unselfish love and labor for others--you will grow and bring forth fruit. The graces of the Spirit will ripen in your character. Your faith will increase, your convictions deepen, your love be made perfect. More and more you will reflect the likeness of Christ in all that is pure, noble, and lovely.

By itself the first passage is a tool for those who push selfmade righteousness through our efforts at keeping the law, but in its true context we learn that it has only one foundation and one goal, Jesus our Lord. If its not in the published books to begin with, even more care must by necessity be taken before any application should be attempted.In swedish I would call it a bears favour (after an old fable that goes like this. A man had a bear and the two were good friends. One night the man was sleaping and the bear was watching over him. At some time in the night, a fly came and sat on the mans face. The bear did not want the man to wake up unnececarily so he decided to help. The bear took his paw and swatted the fly, and in the process broke the neck of the man. The intention may be good but the results are non the less disasterous.)

As I said.. If there is any question on context, bring it up and we can all look at it together and agree on context and add a correction if applicable to anything that needs it...

Yes, that is a famous statement! How could it possibly be interpreted by anyone as arguing for self-righteous salvation?? "Christ is waiting" etc.: Christo-centric!...Oh, do you personally not think that this text is referring to the final fruit of Christ's Gospel ministry, in the heavenly day of atonement?

I listened to the whole weekend talks in Sweden (posted online, made available here recently) by Dr Daniel Duda: he doesn't think this quote is literally true, either, as it happens. Can't avoid its simple message, myself.

As for the 'prooftexting', I've got all the hardcopies - as should both of you two! You want all the contexts checked? The reliability of any compilation can be checked,...but you do know, don't you, that the task of assembling compilations was bequeathed to the White Estate with its existence. We must each check, so Richard may not do your homework for you - he isn't allowed to; but, you must be willing to examine it yourself.

Therefore, any concerns/questions with any excerpt: the onus is on you. Richard said at the very beginning that he has witnessed people doing whats described in these quotes, so he's happy they're true and accurate in context: that does leave you to examine in detail with us any queries you have.

As I said, Ellen tells us throughout the chapter what she means in these two sentences. With the whole context of the chapter, I think its a good word. But used without its context, cutting it out for its "simple message" by itself, then no. If the later is how you want to use this text, please keep it to yourself.

So I guess you would have us use whole chapters, somehow I doubt it will make any difference..

It does a world of difference for the credibility of your message.

Another thing you could try is making your case from the bible. That also would strongly enhance the message.

Back to your opening comment, Richard...
I haven't seen that as clearly cut as you have, where I am, but the idealistic, practical Godliness Gospel message itself of the Testimonies is perhaps rather reluctantly promoted by the laity themselves - at least in open session like Sabbath School.

Confidence is down; it's increasingly difficult to be a spiritual Adventist rather than a social Adventist...without believing that the Bible teaches what Sister White wrote in her support of the Advent Movement & message.

I do believe such, taking my cue from Herbert Douglass and his ilk of the 20th century pastors and theologians, and I'm glad and confident for doing that.

I thought these were very powerful and enlightening quotes, Richard...and appreciate them very much!

Beings the shaking started so many years ago, like over 120 years ago, how do we know that it isn't almost over with?

I thought "the" shaking will occur during the mark of the beast crisis?

4T 89
I was pointed to the providence of God among His people and was shown that every trial made by the refining, purifying process upon professed Christians proves some to be dross. The fine gold does not always appear. In every religious crisis some fall under temptation. The shaking of God blows away multitudes like dry leaves. Prosperity multiplies a mass of professors. Adversity purges them out of the church. As a class, their spirits are not steadfast with God. They go out from us because they are not of us; for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, many are offended. {4T 89.2}

5T 80, 81
The Lord has faithful servants, who in the shaking, testing time will be [future tense] disclosed to view. There are precious ones now hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you. But it may be under a rough and uninviting exterior the pure brightness of a genuine Christian character will be revealed. In the day time we look toward heaven but do not see the stars. They are there, fixed in the firmament, but the eye cannot distinguish them. In the night we behold their genuine luster. {5T 80.1}

The time is not far distant when the test will come to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness. {5T 81.1}

---

Yes, 107 years ago she wrote the following:

6T 331, 332 [1901]
If we only knew what is before us we would not be so dilatory in the work of the Lord. We are in the shaking time, the time when everything that can be shaken will be shaken. The Lord will not excuse those who know the truth if they do not in word and deed obey His commands. If we make no effort to win souls to Christ we shall be held responsible for the work we might have done, but did not do because of our spiritual indolence. Those who belong to the Lord's kingdom must work earnestly for the saving of souls. They must do their part to bind up the law and seal it among the disciples. {6T 331.2}

But she also wrote the following:

I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus."--1T 131, 132 (1856). {LDE 36.3}

Because time is short, we should work with diligence and double energy. Our children may never enter college.--3T 159 (1872). {LDE 36.4}

It is really not wise to have children now. Time is short, the perils of the last days are upon us, and the little children will be largely swept off before this.--Letter 48, 1876. {LDE 36.5}

In this age of the world, as the scenes of earth's history are soon to close and we are about to enter upon the time of trouble such as never was, the fewer the marriages contracted the better for all, both men and women.--5T 366 (1885). {LDE 37.1}

The hour will come; it is not far distant, and some of us who now believe will be alive upon the earth, and shall see the prediction verified, and hear the voice of the archangel and the trump of God echo from mountain and plain and sea to the uttermost parts of the earth.--RH July 31, 1888. {LDE 37.2}

The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer.--1SM 363 (1892). {LDE 37.3}

The long night of gloom is trying, but the morning is deferred in mercy, because if the Master should come so many would be found unready.--2T 194 (1868). {LDE 37.4}

Had Adventists after the great disappointment in 1844 held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward. . . . It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. . . . {LDE 37.5}

For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord's professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years.--Ev 695, 696 (1883). {LDE 38.1}

Had the church of Christ done her appointed work as the Lord ordained, the whole world would before this have been warned and the Lord Jesus would have come to our earth in power and great glory.--DA 633, 634 (1898). {LDE 38.2}

Could it be that the shaking, which began 100 years ago, ended because the church wasn't ready?

We are discussing this on our forum as well, so I'll c/p some thoughts from there:

The shaking is the preaching of the straight truth, right? Think about this quote ~ and note that it is under the title "The Testimonies Slighted" (Isn't that what The Shaking is caused by- the rejection of the testimonies?), and it was written in 1882.




In 1882, there were faithful preachers who were preaching the straight testimony....and she feared that those might be the last of the faithful preachers. Look at the last paragraph ~
In 1882, God was very angry with our church...."fierce anger" is the words she chose to use.... She was calling for the church to repent "as did Ninevah"..."with all their might and believe with all their heart". Has the church done that? That was over 125 years ago! We must ask ourselves, in the last 125 years, which direction has the church gone, has it become more spiritual, or more worldly? Anyone with eyes to see must admit, the church has become more worldly. (I'm speaking of the church as a WHOLE.) Obviously, as a church, we have not repented.... I fear that those very well could have been the last faithful preachers.

Yes, there have been a few here and there since then, just as there are a few faithful preachers in other churches....but as a WHOLE....

"I fear that those very well could have been the last faithful preachers."

If so, what good would the shaking do? The shaking is supposed to sift out the ungodly so that only the faithful remain, right? If there are none faithful remaining in the Church, then sifting out the ungodly would result in the termination of the church, right?

LDE 179
The great issue so near at hand [enforcement of Sunday laws] will weed out those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain.--3SM 385 (1886). {LDE 179.2}

5T 79
We have been inclined to think that where there are no faithful ministers there can be no true Christians, but this is not the case. God has promised that where the shepherds are not true He will take charge of the flock Himself. God has never made the flock wholly dependent upon human instrumentalities. But the days of purification of the church are hastening on apace. God will have a people pure and true. In the mighty sifting soon to take place we shall be better able to measure the strength of Israel. The signs reveal that the time is near when the Lord will manifest that His fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor. {5T 79.4}

Can't answer that....but she is the one who said it...

As you see it, Tammy, what will become of the Church after the Shaking has done its appointed work? Will the SDA Church as a whole remain, purified and sanctified, prepared for the latter rain? Or, will the SDA Church as a whole cease to exist?

As you see it, Tammy, what will become of the Church after the Shaking has done its appointed work? Will the SDA Church as a whole remain, purified and sanctified, prepared for the latter rain? Or, will the SDA Church as a whole cease to exist?

as i understand it only the true belier will be seal.so if you are a s d a and you are not beying God you wont getting the latter rain.you need to do more study on it.

as i understand it only the true beliver will be seal.so if you are a s d a and you are not obeying God you wont getting the latter rain.you need to do more study on it.

Jennes, welcome. Yes, I agree, God will place His seal during the mark of the beast crisis on only those believers who are living in harmony with the three angels' messages.

But what about the shaking? Will the SDA church survive the shaking? Or, will Jesus raise up yet another Movement to replace the SDA church and appoint it to finish proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ?