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#183742 - 05/22/17 07:52 AM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: kland]
Alchemy Online   content
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: His child
The word kingdom <04437> that appears in the Aramaic part of Daniel is never translated as kingdom in Ezra.

Only in Daniel. Of this Aramaic word, I wrote “The very word that you use to support your position is not translated KINGDOM anywhere else in Scripture other than Daniel!”

There are only two places where 04437 occurs, Ezra and Daniel. To say, "anywhere else in Scripture", when the only other place is 4 occurrences in Ezra seems rather weak.

However.....
In Ezra it is translated as reign and realm.
How do you see "realm" as being different from "kingdom"?

Especially when it says, "in my realm" and "the realm of the king"?
Meaning, "realm" in that verse cannot be the same thing as "king", since the "realm" is of the "king", that the king possesses, you know, like a kingdom.


Even though I am tempted to say something snide, I will not.

This word in both books have similar, or the same meanings in both books. It's the same word in the same language. Even though I think His child made a good observation about this word being from the same language which is different from Hebrew, I just don't understand how he interprets these words.
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#183745 - 05/22/17 09:04 AM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Alchemy]
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: His child
The word kingdom <04437> that appears in the Aramaic part of Daniel is never translated as kingdom in Ezra.

Only in Daniel. Of this Aramaic word, I wrote “The very word that you use to support your position is not translated KINGDOM anywhere else in Scripture other than Daniel!”

There are only two places where 04437 occurs, Ezra and Daniel. To say, "anywhere else in Scripture", when the only other place is 4 occurrences in Ezra seems rather weak.

However.....
In Ezra it is translated as reign and realm.
How do you see "realm" as being different from "kingdom"?

Especially when it says, "in my realm" and "the realm of the king"?
Meaning, "realm" in that verse cannot be the same thing as "king", since the "realm" is of the "king", that the king possesses, you know, like a kingdom.

Originally Posted By: Alchemy

Even though I am tempted to say something snide, I will not.

This word in both books have similar, or the same meanings in both books. It's the same word in the same language. Even though I think His child made a good observation about this word being from the same language which is different from Hebrew, I just don't understand how he interprets these words.


Alchemy,

The question before us is how to rightly divide the word of truth of truth?

Since Heaven's interpretation of the vision in Daniel 7:1-14 clearly states that the 4 sea beasts are 4 kings from the earth in the endtime, when the translators encountered a word that can specifically be related to the fourth king's reign, realm, or kingdom; did they get it right when they chose to focus on his kingdom rather than his reign?

As I read it the 4 kingdoms were the seal of authenticity on Daniel's prophecy. They are true. Each time a kingdom arose and fell, it confirmed that Daniel was a true prophet sent of God. But when God told Daniel to seal the book until the time of the end, that places that which was fulfilled in the past in a different light.

The kingdoms were fulfilled before the time of the end. And the true meaning of the book of Daniel was not to be understood until the time of the end which was not until after 1798-1844 when we arrived at the time of the end. Thus to focus on the vision as an interpretation of the interpretation rather than Heaven's interpretation of the vision is to keep the book sealed after it has been opened at Heaven's command.

Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 are parallel chapters. They show the transition from Babylon to papal Rome and from papal Rome to America. America is the last power that will wage war against God's people and there is no blessing in not understanding who are the people that will be in power to do that which God has revealed centuries ago.

To argue that we do not need to know who the President will be when the Mark of the beast is enforced is to choose ignorance when light on this topic is available. God does not tell us things in His word that we do not need to know. If we truly understood Hid word, we would act differently and really get down to business in getting the gospel to the world. But while we are in as state of confusion about where we are in prophetic time, we put off things that should be done.

Laodiceans think that they have need of nothing. It is like saying that they have all the light that they want and refuse light that dose not fit into their neat little historicist point of view. Thus they forget that light will shine brighter and brighter until the perfect day.
_________________________
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).
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#183749 - 05/22/17 11:37 AM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: The Wanderer]
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Originally Posted By: dedication

???? Kland was saying --"the "realm" is of the "king", that the king possesses, you know, like a kingdom."
Perhaps I failed to emphasize the word "cannot". Think if I put it in large blinking red letters it would make a difference?

Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: kland
There are only two places where 04437 occurs, Ezra and Daniel. To say, "anywhere else in Scripture", when the only other place is 4 occurrences in Ezra seems rather weak.
This is incorrect. There are 57 instances where 4437 is used in the Bible, 47 of those in the book of Daniel. It is correctly interpreted as "kingdom/s" in Daniel 7:14, 18, 23, and 27. I listed some context in my last post above.

I meant,
place 1: Ezra;
place 2: Daniel.

(Not talking about a total 2 instances within is supported by saying "4 occurrences in Ezra". By the way, I get a total of 43 instances. I wonder why the differences. Are you finding any besides in Ezra and Daniel?)
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#183751 - 05/22/17 12:03 PM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Mark Shipowick]
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kland - yes, Wanderer misread you. There are 43 verses that have H4437, some verses use the word more that once, giving a total incidence of the word being 57. Example Daniel 2:44 uses it 3 times. And only Daniel and Ezra use the term, the latter using it 4 times.
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Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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#183753 - 05/22/17 02:10 PM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: kland]
His child Online   content
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Originally Posted By: kland
...
I meant,
place 1: Ezra;
place 2: Daniel....



Daniel 2 is an interesting example of the use of KINGDOM.

Thou art this head of gold (referring to a king)
After thee shall come another KINGDOM or REIGN?

Then Daniel 2 concludes "in the days of these kings" not in the days of these KINGDOMS.

Again Daniel writes about KINGS (with a word that has to be translated as KINGS) and the translators turn the focus from the reigns of these kings to their kingdoms when Daniel uses a word that can refer to the king's reign or his relm.

Why? Because they understood the meaning of the prophecy in 1612 which was 166 - 232 years before the meaning of the prophecy was unsealed.
_________________________
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).
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#183767 - 05/23/17 02:58 PM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Mark Shipowick]
kland Offline
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Dan 2:44 kings - melek (4430)
Dan 2:39 kingdom - malkuw (4437)

Different words.

Guess you're trying to explain why the different words really mean the same word.

Could it be that "these kings" do not refer to all the kingdoms? Could it refer to the ones of iron mixed with clay?

Hard for someone to understand these things if they don't understand if the Greek Omega does NOT correspond to our "W".
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#183772 - 05/23/17 11:09 PM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: kland]
His child Online   content
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Posts: 1120
Loc: TN, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Dan 2:44 kings - melek (4430)
Dan 2:39 kingdom - malkuw (4437)

Different words.

Guess you're trying to explain why the different words really mean the same word.

Could it be that "these kings" do not refer to all the kingdoms? Could it refer to the ones of iron mixed with clay?

Hard for someone to understand these things if they don't understand if the Greek Omega does NOT correspond to our "W".


When Daniel begins and ends his interpretation of the king's dream by talking about kings, it is interesting that the word that he uses that relates to the king's reign was not chosen by the translators while the meaning of realm or kingdom is the one that they choose. That is especially interesting since Daniel said that the gold, silver, brass, iron, and clay will all be smashed (broken together) all at the same time. The kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan and papal Rome NEVER existed all at the same time.

Hard for someone to understand these things if they don't understand if the Greek Omega DOES look like our "W".
_________________________
"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3).
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#183776 - 05/24/17 09:33 AM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Mark Shipowick]
kland Offline
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Posts: 4861
Loc: Midland
His child, whatever you imagine about realms being kings themselves, it doesn't matter.

You emphasize "looking" like W. But it isn't.

It does NOT correlate to our W.

Prove otherwise, other than "looks".
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#183778 - 05/24/17 10:05 AM Re: Daniel 9 and the 144,000 [Re: Mark Shipowick]
kland Offline
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Posts: 4861
Loc: Midland
Gamma looks like an inverted "L", but it's not an L.
Eta looks like an "H", but it's not an H.
And little eta looks like an "n", but it's not an n.
Lambda and Delta kind of looks like a "A", but they're not an A.
Rho looks like a "P", but it's not a P.
Chi looks like an "X", but it's not an X.
Mu looks like a "u", but it's not a u.
Nu looks like a "v", but it's not a v.
Xi might look like an "e", but it's not an e.
Sigma might look like an upside down "Q" or a "c", but it's not.
And likewise, Omega kind of, sort of looks like a "w", but it's NNNNOOOOOTTTTT a w!

https://www.quinapalus.com/gr1.html
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