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#184745 - 08/02/17 02:29 AM Re: Soul and Body sleep [Re: Alchemy]
dedication Online   content
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The word "soul" is translated from the Hebrew word "nephesh" 473 times in our English Bibles.

The word "nephesh" occurs 745 times.
Besides the 473 times it's translated as "soul" it is also translated as
life or lives -- 120 times
person -- 30 times
mind -- 16 times
heart -- 15 times
creature -- 9 times
will -- 4 times
as well as other words in one or two places like "fish" "thing" "beast" "desire"

It is never said to be immortal in any of these hundreds of uses. Nor is there any indication that a soul is disembodied living identity.
In the Old Testament a mortal is a living soul rather than having a soul. Instead of splitting a person into two or three parts, Hebrew thought sees a unified being, but one that is profoundly complex.

The New Testament has the word Greek word "psuche"
It occurs 105 times
Translated as
soul -- 58 times
life or lives -- 40 times
also translated a few times as "mind" "heart" "us" "you"

Again the concept of immortality is lacking from all these occurrences of the word "soul".
#184819 - 08/07/17 01:10 AM Re: Soul and Body sleep [Re: Alchemy]
dedication Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy

Job 7:7-10;

7) O remember that my life [is] wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
8) The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no [more]: thine eyes [are] upon me, and I [am] not.
9) [As] the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no [more].
10) He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.

The Bible is clear that there isn't any kind of limbo condition of the body. It is gone and will not rise up and go to his house or home anymore.

Job 10:20-22;

20) [Are] not my days few? cease [then, and] let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
21) Before I go [whence] I shall not return, [even] to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22) A land of darkness, as darkness [itself; and] of the shadow of death, without any order, and [where] the light [is] as darkness. (bold emphasis mine)

I find it quite telling that Bible writers never talk about any existence in death or the grave. Never do they say our body is in the grave, but, my life or soul is in Heaven or paradise.

Yet, some Christians claim some kind of limbo or something anyway.

Yes, the book of Job has quite a bit to say about death. Thanks for sharing these verses.

Here are some more:

Job 17
17:13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.
17:14 I have said to corruption, Thou [art] my father: to the worm, [Thou art] my mother, and my sister.
17:15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it?
17:16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together [is] in the dust.

Job 14:12 "So man lies down, and rises not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."

Job 14:21 "His sons come to honour, and he knows it not; and they are brought low, but he perceives it not of them."

Job also believed in the resurrection at the end of the world.

19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth:
19:26 And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God:
19:27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; [though] my reins be consumed within me.
#184906 - 08/12/17 08:39 PM Re: Soul and Body sleep [Re: dedication]
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The Catholic Church announced that keeping the cremated remains of loved ones in one's home, or spreading the ashes somewhere in nature, is not allowed.
The ashes of cremated dead must be buried in a sacred place -- as in a cemetery.

Among other reasons --
the Vatican links this to the general Christian belief of the resurrection of the body. (A belief quite different from our belief in the resurrection of the person unto life)
In that belief -- the spirits of the dead, who are "with the Lord" will someday -- at the great judgment day, return with Christ and be rejoined with their resurrected bodies.

The document states:
"To rise with Christ, we must die with Christ: we must “be away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Cor 5:8)....
By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul....
The Church who, as Mother, has accompanied the Christian during his earthly pilgrimage, offers to the Father, in Christ, the child of her grace, and she commits to the earth, in hope, the seed of the body that will rise in glory....
When the deceased notoriously has requested cremation and the scattering of their ashes for reasons contrary to the Christian faith, a Christian funeral must be denied to that person according to the norms of the law."

Well there you have it.

The false theory of separation of the soul from the body.
The great glorious hope of the resurrection, it is said, isn't really an awakening from the dead unto life, but a mere rejoining of the soul that has already rejoiced for countless years in the presence of the Lord, just coming back to enter a resurrected body.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Why would this be such a glorious hope????
Why look forward to Christ's glorious appearing in hope, shouldn't it say -- looking forward to dying so we can be with Christ?
But no -- our glorious hope of life after death is intimately connected with Christ's glorious appearing.

Our hope of life is in Christ raising us unto life at the last day!

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which has sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

When Jesus says something three times -- it is important! In His discourse of eternal life for believers there in John chapter six, He makes it very clear that He will raise them up at the last day -- and Paul explains its,when the trumpet shall sound and the dead in Christ will be raised incorruptible! (1 Cor 15:52)

Also is our resurrection subject to where or how we are buried?
I think not. Our resurrection is subject to our relationship with Christ --
It is not the same molecules that went into the grave that will rise.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So the whole theory that souls are in heaven with the Lord, waiting to come back to earth to re-inhabit their earthly bodies is false.

At the resurrection the PERSON is raised from the dead in a NEW incorruptible, spiritual body!

In the document there is also mention of praying for the dead and to the dead saints. Yet scripture says:

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

If the Bible is saying the dead can't affect anything that happens here on earth. Why are people still praying to these dead saints when the dead can't hear them?

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