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#185299 - 10/15/17 03:21 AM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
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A review of the trumpets --

Before the trumpets --
*Constantine unites Christianity with the Roman Empire.
•The papacy was groomed by Imperial Rome.
•A powerless form of Christianity doing nothing to transform the carnal nature results in a licentious society bearing Christ's name.
•The western imperial Rome is "weighed in the balances" and found wanting and falls.
*Trumpet after trumpet (four in all) sound as the western Roman Empire crumbles under the onslaught of armies.

The Trumpets prophesy the consequences of the making of the Beast, which grew out of the great apostasy from Christianity.

Would history be different, if corruption had not reigned? Would it have been different if the "state religion", instead of treating the Christian tribes who held Semi-Arian belief, as heretics and threats to the papal church, they would have respected each other as Christians?

The uniting of state and religion, making the papal religion THE only acceptable religion, brought ruin to imperial western Rome -- a variable not often recognized.


•The papal church did not die with the death of the empire, instead it rises from the ashes of imperial Rome and gains sovereign power over religion for 1260 years.


•The nature of sovereign power over religion is to eradicate all who don't agree with that power and submit to its mandates
.
•Three strong Semi-Arian nations were uprooted under combined efforts and influence of Papacy and eastern emperor.

*The eastern Emperor, Justinian, is still in the business of "forming the beast", disposing one who seemed favorable to the Gothic kingdom that was in control of Italy and Rome, and replacing him with another pope.

*The Goths were the last of the three Semi-Arian nations to be uprooted. Now the papacy filled the vacuum of power in Italy, as well as being the "head" of all churches.

But there were still "non-compliant" Christians who -- after the agenda of state religious control, needed to be either converted, banished, or annihilated.

•There are still many true Christians in the east, they start fleeing further east out of range of the beast power.
•Wars with Persia, (where many of these Christians had fled) as well as the desire to control Jerusalem, which the Persians had captured in 614 AD, caused the papal party to devise a plan to use the Arab armies to settle these matters for them.
•Mohammad was "groomed" to lead in this plan.
•But that backfired big time. As the now combined (at least in religious motivations) Arab tribes had no desire to fight for the Catholics, but started to set up their own "empire".

The aim to control will eventually always backfire.

The fifth trumpet covers a period of eight hundred and seventeen years,—A.D. 632-1449,
....—first the Arabian Mohammedans showing the rise and work of the Mohammedans in the destruction of the Eastern Rome Empire
.... later the 150 years of Turkish Mohammedans.

Most of the conquest and the crusades took place prior to those 150 years.
And one wonders who did the most damage to the Eastern Roman Empire -- the Turks or the Christian Crusaders?

We must remember that after the Eastern Orthodox church refused to acknowledge the pope as their "head', every occasion was used to try and force them back into submission.

The Christian Crusaders weakened the Eastern Empire to a point where they no longer had the strength to resist the Turks when they came.


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#185300 - 10/15/17 04:33 AM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
dedication Online   content

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Now let's look at the fifth trumpet a little closer:

9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

A STAR FALLS

He "drops down" from heaven to the earth. But who is he?

THE KEY

Jesus holds all the keys. (Rev. 1:8 and 3:7) Who else would hold the key that shuts and opens the bottomless pit? The king of the bottomless pit, Apollan, is obviously NOT holding the key.
Jesus has given the key to a divine messenger who drops down from heaven to set loose the frightening hordes of the bottomless pit.
Later in the sixth trumpet, we see the trumpet angel told to release four bound "angels".

So in the fifth trumpet a key is given to release those confined in the bottomless pit.


9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


THE BOTTOMLESS PIT

The "deep". We find two beasts in Revelation that ascend out of the bottomless pit. (Rev. 11:7 and 17:8) Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit. Rev. 20:1,3.
The bottomless pit seems to be a place where demonic evil is "chained". Thus when a "beast" arises from the bottomless pit, it has received it's power from "the dragon"(as we see in Rev. 13) but it is none the less a human identity.
Nahum 3:15 compares enemy warriors to locusts.

Others see "bottomless pit" as a general wasteland -- as a desert.

The vast hordes of the Mohammedans are shown under the symbol of a cloud of locusts; and in verses 7-9 the meaning of the symbol is made plain by the words, "The shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; . . . and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle." {September 4, 1900 ATJ, ARSH 568.6}

They have the power of the scorpion, not the shape of the scorpion. They sting and cause a lot of pain and suffering, but they are not as deadly as the ones coming in the sixth trumpet.

Apostolic Christians were tolerated by the Moslems at first. In fact many actually welcomed the take over of the Moslems as they had been persecuted by the Eastern emperors.
The monks apparently didn't fare so well. As the years went by animosity between Christians and Muslims grew.
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#185304 - 10/15/17 05:42 PM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
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and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


The fifth and the sixth trumpet cover what is commonly called the "dark ages". What made them "dark"?

The smoke out of the bottomless pit arose on the earth, and darkened the sun, (The Son of righteousness) and filled the world with corrupt sentiments, and the minds of men with superstitious principles, - the obnoxious vapors of the doctrine of devils filled the moral air.

"The accession of the Roman Church to power marked the beginning of the Dark Ages. As her power increased, the darkness deepened. Faith was transferred from Christ, the true foundation, to the pope of Rome. Instead of trusting in the Son of God for forgiveness of sins and for eternal salvation, the people looked to the pope, and to the priests and prelates to whom he delegated authority." GC88 54

9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


And there came locusts out of the smoke upon the earth. Smoke denotes errors, and locusts destructive armies.

The locusts of the fifth trumpet are cruel invading armies proceeding against those without the seal of God.

What is the 'seal of God'?

"The fourth commandment alone of all the ten contains the seal of the great Lawgiver, the Creator of the heavens and the earth.--6T 350 (1900)

What was happening in regards to the Sabbath during this time?

The Roman church was going ever stricter in outlawing the Saturday, Sabbath, and promoting the Sunday, "Lord's Day".

The Sabbath in the Dark Ages was still being kept, as many tried to accommodate the Catholic institution as well as keep God's Sabbath, by refraining from work TWO days every week. Saturday and Sunday.

We see many regulations being issued during this time, forbidding Sabbath keeping and enforcing Sunday keeping.

Thus the smoke of error rising out of the bottomless pit including (among other things) the church's rejection of the "the seal of God" the 7th day Sabbath.

Out of the smoke came hordes of locusts (Mohammaden Arabs) armies. Coming out to hurt those who had rejected the "seal of God".

Conclusions:

9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit (the pit where evil and demonic spirits were restrained);
and there arose a smoke out of the pit, (errors and strange doctrines)
as the smoke of a great furnace; (devouring nearly all)
and the sun (the Son of Righteousness, Jesus Christ)
and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. (blinding people from seeing Christ our Savior)
9:3 And there came out of the smoke (out of these errors)
locusts upon the earth: (aggressive armies -- Islamic Arabs)
and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. (power to sting like scorpions)
9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; (they were commanded not to destroy nature when they took a city)
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. (The Arab warriers were sent against the Christian Church which sought to obliterated God's sign of Creation/sanctification/loyalty -- the Sabbath, the seal of God.
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#185307 - 10/17/17 09:43 AM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
kland Offline
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Loc: Midland
Originally Posted By: dedication
Sequential order is seen in
The seven churches -- they are given in order. (One transparency)
The seven seals -- they are given in order. (A second transparency that is layered over the first)
The seven trumpets -- they are given in order. (A third transparency layered over the first)
Five angels with special warning messages to the people of earth shocked follow in sequence --


Quote:
But what angel preceded the angel of Rev. 14:6? Following back in the book of Revelation, we find no angel, except the seventh trumpet angel in Revelation eleven. Then we come to the first verse of chapter ten; and there we read: "And I saw another mighty angel."


Are the Five angels another "transparency layered over" the others?

If so, you can't compare sequential order between them.
Only within.

If not, then you need to show why it's not a transparency, why it should be implied order to something before chapter 12. You can't cross the chapter 11-12 boundary. Two totally different parts of Revelation - "transparencies" if you will. Chapter 12 begins a new section starting at Christ's death. You can't cross it for implying sequential order to the previous part.
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#185309 - 10/17/17 11:31 PM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
dedication Online   content

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I have no idea what you are talking about with a boundary that can't be crossed over????? Just because the first half takes us from the prophet's day to the very end of the "time of the end" in three layered accounts, and the second half of Revelation focuses primarily on the "time of the end" does not mean they are "totally different" and don't tell the same story.

It is ONE STORY,

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=185265#Post185265

The seven churches -- they are given in order. (One transparency)
The seven seals -- they are given in order. (A second transparency that is layered over the first)
The seven trumpets -- they are given in order. (A third transparency layered over the first)

Five angels with special warning messages to the people of earth shocked follow in sequence --
the first (Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters

That angel is NOT a trumpet angel, but is the first to cry a warning to the "inhabitants of the earth" right at the time when the beast gains it's power, (about 538 A.D.) beginning the 1260 years. -- After imperial Rome fell, and the Papacy filled the power vacuum.

Revelation 13 tells us the beast receives a wound (people think he's dead for good) BUT the beast will revive and the next three angels, we see warning the inhabitants of the earth, that the beast revives and gains a strong partner, we should worship God, not the beast and his image, God is judging who we are actually worshipping, the one we obey is our master (starting about 1840 to end)

Then in Revelation 18 we see the last angel that "warns the inhabitants of the earth" --
this last warning angel gives a stronger warning reinforcing the other three == that's where we are in the course of history right NOW!



TIME PERIODS
34 -150......150-312......312-538........538-1520....1520-1798......1798-1850......1850-20??
Rev. 2-3
Ephesus,.... Smyrna,.... Pergamum,.... Thyatira,.... Sardis,...... Philadelphia,.... Laodicea
Rev. 6-7
White horse, Red horse, black horse,.. pale horse,... 5th seal....... 6th seal....................7th seal
Rev. 8-11
.......................Trumpet angels 1-4.. { shocked } trumpet angels 5-6 ..timelines end ..trumpet angel 7
..............................................papacy rises..................papacy wounded
.......................................................................................last church is born
Chapter 12-13
dragon works through imperial Rome.....through beast power..........................beast & image of beast
Chapter 14
.........................................................................................................144,000 stand with Christ
..................................................................................... shocked shocked shocked (3 angel's message)...harvest of the earth.
Chapter 15-16
................................................. ................................................................seven last plagues
Chapter 18
......................................................................................................... shocked Rev. 18:1
Rev. 19
..............................................................................................................................Second Coming





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