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#185348 - 10/25/17 12:53 AM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

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The warning angel of Rev. 8:13
is situated between the fourth and fifth trumpets. That is the point of beginning of the "man of sin" sitting in God's place.
At that time, Western Imperial Rome (who had brought him power) had fallen, the first four trumpets have been fulfilled.

The year? Around 538 when the Papacy begins his 1260 years of power, the warning begins-- woe, woe, woe, three woes, and that warning continues until the last woe is ended.

The "woe, woe, woe!" was pronounced upon a church which walked in the sparks of their own kindling. The Bible disregarded, the wisdom of men exalted, and the man of sin worshiped, as he placed himself between the people and their Savior.

Trumpets five and six show what happened in the past (538-1840) the trouble and destructions that fell upon the false church -- will men repent? Between trumpets 6 and 7 there is a time when the papal power receives a fatal blow and God's church rises to shout the message to stay clear of false religion and worship God the creator who is judging His people so all may eventually "discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. Mal.3:18 .

EGW links the angel of Rev. 8;13 with the angel of Rev. 18:1 in the (1888 485) file.
The angel in 8:13 begins the warning when the papal system first arises, the angel in 18:1 gives the last desperate call as that same system makes it's final attempt for supremacy over the human race.

The warning of the third angel's message -- "come out of her my people".
#185349 - 10/25/17 02:20 AM Re: Seven Trumpets & 3rd Angel's Message [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

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Originally Posted By: A.T.Jones
The fifth trumpet covers a period of eight hundred and seventeen years,—A.D. 632-1449,
....—and shows the rise and work of the Mohammedans in the destruction of Eastern Rome—first
....the Arabian Mohammedans and later the Turkish Mohammedans. Of this Albert Barnes remarks that,
...."with surprising unanimity, commentators have agreed in regarding this as referring to the
....empire of the Saracens, or to the rise and progress of the religion and the empire set up by Mohammed."
....We can not see how any one who will ready the prophecy, and Gibbon's history of Mohammed and his
....successors in the light of it, can disagree with the application of the prophecy to the Mohammedans.

A quick review of the first 600 years before discussing the 150 years. Those 600 years were years of crusades and war!

The new Islamic power launched countless crusades against all the countries around them! Islamic Crusades were very successful. The Byzantines and Persian Empires had worn themselves out with fighting. Into this weakened political scene stormed Islam.

It was still within those 600 years we see the Papal crusades retaliating:

1095 Pope Urban II calls for the first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099.

In 1147–49, the Second Crusade attempted to take Damascus
in Syria. The campaign was a dismal failure because the Muslims had regrouped. Led by Salah al-Din (Saladin), Muslim forces advanced across Syria and finally retook Jerusalem in October 1187.

1189–92 the Third Crusade

1202 -- the fourth crusade besieging the Byzantium’s capital, Constantinople. They conquered the city, pillaged and robbed it, and set it up as Latin city.
Yes, the fourth Crusades biggest accomplishment had nothing to do with Muslims, it was the papal armies that besieged, conquered and pillaged Constantinople.

1261 the Byzantium's regained Constantinople, but the Byzantium Empire was so weakened it had little defenses to withstand Muslim threats.

All those crusades and battles of Christians and Muslims happened BEFORE the 150 year spoken of the 5th trumpet.

But now we come to the 150 years.

They began, A. D. 1299, July 27.
Last 5 months = 150 days = 150 years.

July 27th, 1299, Othman, the founder of the Turkish empire, made his first attack on the Greeks in the battle of Bapheum. The time of Turkish harrasment extended 150 years, to 1449. Their power was to torment, not to kill. During that whole period the Turks were engaged in almost perpetual war with the Greek empire, but yet without conquering it.

Now some would contest the date 1299.

The historian Pachymeres, a Greek writer living back then, gave a detailed account of the battle and said it took place July 27, but doesn't give the year. This of course leaves room for speculation.
In 1669 another historian, Possinus did a lot of research on the matter, especially studying Pachymeres account, and concluded that the battle took place in the year 1299.
The Adventist Pioneer's favorite historian, Gibbons, agreed with Possinus, that it took place in 1299.

However a later historian, Joseph Hammer from Austria, researched the matter and decided the battle took place in 1301, A.D. and many have followed his lead.

Which one is correct?
Basically Possinus researched material from the Greek (Byzantine) side, while Hammer researched material from the Turk side.

Keep also in mind that the historicists school of prophetic interpretation during the sixteenth, seventeenth and eighteenth century were largely protestant and they accepted the 150 year interpretation as Adventists have known it.

It was the Catholic counter-reformation that steered prophetic interpretation into preterits and futurist lines of thought, both of which take the focus away from the papal church as being a central part of the prophecies.
Part of this "steering" away from historicist interpretation includes relentless attacks on dates -- not just the prophetic dates in the trumpets, but all the dates -- 1260, 2300 etc.

The objective of satan is the silencing of the third angel's message. And he will use every means possible to do it.

The third angel's message is NOT popular. The ecumenical movement is "let's all get together" while the third angel's message is "come out of her my people".

Back in 1944 "Ministry Magazine" published a whole series of articles dealing with the "time of the trumpets" by several authors.

There is plenty of evidence to believe if one wants to believe. And we as Adventists, should be careful not to give up our prophetic heritage, for how many times have Biblical things been "disproved" by historians, only to have evidence emerge to show inspiration was right after all.

Should we take it lightly that EGW writes concerning the "time" in the trumpets was EXACTLY fulfilled
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