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Re: Whose are we?
#10231
10/11/03 12:34 AM
10/11/03 12:34 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
The function of Ellen White's lesser light is to lead us back to the truth of the Bible, the Greater Light.
The use of any light is meaningful in darkness, to dispel darkness. SO if we bring a small light into a place of darkness, it will shine and dispel the darkness to the degree of its strength. If we bring the greater light to that same place it will dispel darkness which the lesser light was not able to do. But if we bring the small light to lighten the greater light, we act rather foolishly, for there the smaller light does not enlighten anything due to the greater light.
How do you use the lesser light? Is the bible a dark place? John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. … That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world…And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Are we more comfortable with the lesser light than the greater light?
Some light, some darkness?
Sounds Lukewarm?
Shalom
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Re: Whose are we?
#10232
10/11/03 12:42 AM
10/11/03 12:42 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Mike said quote:
John, the fact the SDA church is lukewarm is evidence she is the remnant church. The remnant church will be shaken during the MOB crisis, if she were perfect there would be no need for a shaking.
So then the traits by which the remnant is known are that,
- they profess to know and have and need nothing, but do not know that they are wretched miserable and naked
- they profess to keep the commandments, but do not do them
- they profess to have the spirit of prophecy, but he is not in their hearts
- they profess to preach God's last message to this world (3AM's), but have not received his word to them
That sounds like, the kind of remnant one throws away, not the kind that is saved when the whole was bad.
Shalom
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Re: Whose are we?
#10233
10/11/03 01:54 AM
10/11/03 01:54 AM
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John, I think you are confusing the remnant with those in the Laodicean condition.
LK
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Re: Whose are we?
#10234
10/11/03 02:19 AM
10/11/03 02:19 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
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Ikan,
I was addressing the fact that Mike indicated that he did not expect a non SDA to understand, I was clarifying that I am quite familar with adventism.... Your other points notwithstanding, I agree somewhat realizing that for those of us who grew up "in the church" God reveals Himself to us somewhat differently, and our rebirth usually comes after a period of rebellion and discovery......
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Re: Whose are we?
#10235
10/11/03 02:33 AM
10/11/03 02:33 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Larry quote:
John, I think you are confusing the remnant with those in the Laodicean condition.
Mike said, quote:
the fact the SDA church is lukewarm is evidence she is the remnant church
Does that mean that the remnant is yet to be revealed after the shaking?
What will be its characteristics?
Can the church lay claim to it in its Laodicean, lukewarm condition?
Shalom
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Re: Whose are we?
#10236
10/13/03 10:26 PM
10/13/03 10:26 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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John, as I see it, the endtime Remnant Church of prophecy is a mixture of hot, cold and lukewarm members. The shaking simply roots out the time serving members leaving a pure membership to proclaim the final warning messages during the little time of trouble.
Does this agree with your understanding of prophecy?
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Re: Whose are we?
#10237
10/17/03 11:34 PM
10/17/03 11:34 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham. John 8:39
Luke 3:8 … begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. It benefited the descendants of Abraham nothing to think themselves special before God if they did not partake of the spirit of Abraham. The only thing they garnered is incurring judgments. This same folly has been and is being repeated by the so-called "Church/es". Romans 2:28,29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; If the Israelites were only Israelites if they were so spiritually; then, that much more so, can 'Spiritual Israel' be 'Spiritual Israel' only according to spirit, and not by definition of any other entity. The true church is only ever defined as a spiritual body, and never as a physical entity/denomination. Thus the concept of being the remnant, without the spirit of him whose remnant one is, is null and void. The spiritual condition of the whole world, as well as that of any of the so-called churches, fit your description of the remnant; for, there are those that are cold, lukewarm, and hot.
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Re: Whose are we?
#10238
10/17/03 11:39 PM
10/17/03 11:39 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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The purpose of prophecy was not to establish various entities/denominations as the true church in its corresponding age, but to warn against that very deception by revealing the spiritual condition/s of their deception. In so that, ALL WHO HAVE AN EAR TO HEAR what the spirit saith to the 'churches' may overcome and repent and be saved. Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.Proverbs 27:1 The Adventist concept of hanging their hope on a future shaking, which will purify the entity/denomination and thereby acquire its spiritual state of remnant, is a terrible deception of Satan, so that they do not repent and overcome TODAY, but wait for tomorrow. TODAY is the day of the Lord. Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham Luke 3:8. Shalom
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Re: Whose are we?
#10239
10/17/03 11:52 PM
10/17/03 11:52 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Six or seven generations of Adventists have come and gone seeking to avert, avoid, prolong, and delay the day when this shaking will occur. Who are they that will stop compromising (being lukewarm) tomorrow? - Do you think that the 'Organization' will tomorrow want to take such a stand that would cause such a shaking in the denomination?
- Do you think that the 'Organization' will tomorrow be spiritual enough to take such a vote? Especially since it continues to wait for the shaking to happen before it becomes purified?
- It is only basic, that those that compromise (are lukewarm) will continue to seek to find a compromise, as many already have.
The Lord did not say that when persecution arises people will become righteous! But rather he said, "blessed are they, which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
Wherefore as the Holy Spirit says, Today if you will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. (Adventists-140+ years) Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest. Hebrews 3:7-11.
You have only today to be the remnant, today to be God's child, today to hear his voice, today to repent and overcome.
Tomorrow is not yours, tomorrow you cannot repent, tomorrow you cannot overcome, tomorrow you cannot become the remnant. And you cannot be the remnant today without the spiritual reality.
What is the repentance and overcoming? It is real when one 'listens attentively with faith' to the Lord; receives the word of the Lord into the heart. Today, if you will hear his voice!Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. There is the remnant! They are known for whose they are.
Shalom
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Re: Whose are we?
#10240
11/01/03 08:52 PM
11/01/03 08:52 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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John, I agree with you concerning having the faith of a shaken Remnant Church today! Thank you for sharing. What do you think will cause a shaking and purification within Adventism?
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