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The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. #107780
01/24/09 11:40 PM
01/24/09 11:40 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,222
Florida, USA
I came across a few articles on the worship of the dead and how it evolved in the early church which was very interesting.

The pagan festivals of the dead seem to have been among those that showed persistence in survival. There are indications that they were celebrated even under Christian emperors...But even after the pagan festivals ceased to be celebrated, the belief that the spirits of the dead could and, if properly approached, would give aid and protection to the living survived. The leaders of the Church compromised, shifting from the cult of the spirits of ancestors to the veneration of persons whose virtues, sufferings, or miraculous deeds justified their being regarded as intermediaries between God and man. In other words the Saints succeeded to the worship of the dead just as they succeeded to the cult of the departmental deities and to the "little gods" of the Roman household... While the Church claims it never gave the Saints to the people to worship or pray to, the masses of the population made no such fine distinctions, and they came to regard the Saints themselves as present helps in trouble and addressed their prayers directly to them. They were more interested in the power of the dead of pagan beliefs now set up as Saints to help them in their troubles as they had done before.

A good example of the closeness of the resemblance of the specialization of function of different Saints to that of pagan spirits is found in the published lists of Saints used by Spanish peasants... Here are some of the examples furnished by the Spanish index: San Serapio should be appealed to in case of stomach-ache; Santa Polonia for tooth-ache; San Jose ́ , San Juan Bautista and Santa Catalina for headache; San Bernardo and San Cirilo for indigestion; San Luis for cholera; San Francisco for colic; San Ignacio and Santa Lutgarda for childbirth; Santa Balsania for scrofula; San Felix for ulcers; Santa Agueda for nursing mothers; San Babilas for burns; San Gorge for an infected cut; Santa Quiteria for dog's bite; [ p. 12] San Ciriaco for diseases of the ear; Santa Lucia for the eyes; Santa Bibiana for epilepsy; San Gregorio for frost-bite; San Pantaleon for haermorrhoids; San Roque for the plague; Santa Dorothea for rheumatism; San Pedro for fever; and Santa Rita for the impossible.

Apart from the general doctrine of the veneration of Saints, there are some specific festivals of the modern Church that go back directly to pagan customs connected with the dead. One of these is All Saints' Day, now celebrated on the first of November but till the time of Pope Gregory III observed on the thirteenth of May, which was one of the days of the Roman festival of the dead, the Lemuria. Whether there is any connection between these dates or not, the rites of All Saints' Day are a survival not of the Lemuria but of the Parentalia. For in the modern festival the faithful visit the tombs of the Saints, venerate their relics, and pray for their blessing. The next day also, the second of November, All Souls' Day, unquestionably reproduces some of the features of the Parentalia. People go in great numbers to the cemeteries and deck the graves of the members of their family with flowers and candles, and the mass, which takes the place of the ancient sacrifice, is directed to the repose of the souls of the departed.

Nothing is more characteristic of paganism and the heathen worship than the worship of idols and relics. Wherever a Cathedral or chapel is opened, or a temple consecrated, it cannot be thoroughly complete without some relic or other of he-saint or she-saint to give sanctity to it. The relics of the saints and rotten bones of the martyrs form a great part of the wealth of the Church.

In Greece, the superstitious regard to relics, and especially to the bones of the deified heroes, was a conspicuous part of the popular idolatry. The work of Pausanias, the learned Grecian antiquary, is full of reference to this superstition. "They" [the Thebans], says Pausanias, "say that his [Hector's] bones were brought hither from Troy, in consequence of the following oracle: "'..Thebans, who inhabit the city of Cadmus, if you wish to reside in your country, blest with the possession of blameless wealth, bring the bones of Hector, the son of Priam, into your dominions from Asia, and reverence the hero agreeably to the mandate of Jupiter....'" In Italy the bones of Virgil attained sanctity, and as the centuries passed they were regarded more and more as a guaranty of safety to the city of Naples where they were deposited. The bones thus carefully kept and reverenced were all believed to be miracle-working bones.

The Christians adapted themselves to the pagan attitude. They matched the miracle-workers of the pagans with wonder-working Saints. The sanctity of relics, well-established as it had been among the pagans, acquired far greater vogue in Christian times and was given a degree of emphasis that it had never had before. The idea showed extension also in the division of the remains of a Saint and in the efficacy attached even to the smallest relic.

Some of the early Christians themselves protested against the cult of the Saints: for example, Vigilantius and Faustus in the fifth century. But on the other side were such great apologists as Augustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Chrysostom, and Basil, who though claiming that God alone was worshipped, expressed full belief in the efficacy of the intercession of the Saints.

When the law was given to the children of Israel at Sinai, they had just been delivered from a country where some of the worst forms of idolatry had been practiced. The chief gods, which the Egyptians worshipped, were the likenesses of Osiris and his wife, Isis. Osiris was known as the god of the dead. All heathen gods were men and women who, after their deaths, were deified and worshipped. In many places, they are still worshipped.

As far back as can be traced, the worship of all pagan deities originated with the worship of dead men and dead women. The Bible speaks very plainly concerning the worship of the dead and the familiar spirits of the dead. Do not seek after those that peep and mutter, the Bible says. (Isaiah 8:19.) (See also Leviticus 19:31; Deuteronomy 18:10–12.) Here is what the Spirit of Prophecy has on this....

"....Nearly all forms of ancient sorcery and witchcraft were founded upon a belief in communion with the dead. Those who practiced the arts of necromancy claimed to have intercourse with departed spirits, and to obtain through them a knowledge of future events. This custom of consulting the dead is referred to in the prophecy of Isaiah: "When they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?" Isaiah 8:19.

This same belief in communion with the dead formed the cornerstone of heathen idolatry. The gods of the heathen were believed to be the deified spirits of departed heroes. Thus the religion of the heathen was a worship of the dead. This is evident from the Scriptures. In the account of the sin of Israel at Bethpeor, it is stated: "Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor." Numbers 25:1-3. The psalmist tells us to what kind of gods these sacrifices were offered. Speaking of the same apostasy of the Israelites, he says, "They joined themselves also unto Baalpeor, and ate the sacrifices of the dead" (Psalm 106:28); that is, sacrifices that had been offered to the dead.

The deification of the dead has held a prominent place in nearly every system of heathenism, as has also the supposed communion with the dead. The gods were believed to communicate their will to men, and also, when consulted, to give them counsel. Of this character were the famous oracles of Greece and Rome.....Page 684, Patriarchs and Prophets"



All graven images of worship usually represent dead heroes, ancestors, or, as we find in modern forms of this idolatrous worship, the saints and the Virgin Mary. Interestingly, in the Catholic structure, a person does not become a saint until he or she is dead.

Idol worship denigrates the idea of worshipping God to the level of worshipping stone or wood images of the dead. The apostles were scarcely dead before the early Christians began to make graven images of them. The apostasy ripened into its full fruitage between the fourth and the eighth centuries and continues to this day.

http://www.8wiki.com/EditHandler.aspx?page=Saints_Veneration_Of_Replaced_Worship_Of_The_Dead

Last edited by Richard; 01/24/09 11:42 PM.
Re: The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. [Re: Rick H] #107781
01/25/09 12:41 AM
01/25/09 12:41 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
while this is valuable information i think what is most important to point out is how the "saints" are used to make people think God is far off and unapproachable.

do we, as a people, perpetuate that picture?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. [Re: teresaq] #107784
01/25/09 03:05 AM
01/25/09 03:05 AM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
Those "saints" don't help to bridge the gap..., but there is a permanent gap between God and sinners! - and God is afar off and unapproachable for sinful man.

It is the Incarnated Son of God who makes the difference, for him and for us. You think we detract from that truth by overemphasising Jesus' sinful humanity to the detriment of his righteous mind and character and deity, to the divine throne of which he links us as a Man?

Re: The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. [Re: Colin] #107785
01/25/09 03:57 AM
01/25/09 03:57 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Colin
Those "saints" don't help to bridge the gap..., but there is a permanent gap between God and sinners! - and God is afar off and unapproachable for sinful man.


i dont believe that is true. sinful man does not desire nor look for God. but God is very near to each of us:
Quote:
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
it is we that are afar off and unapproachable to God. everything in the bible tells us how God comes looking for us, not the other way around.

and yes we do need Jesus to see the love of the Godhead for us and hopefully break and humble our hearts to stop running from Him but instead submit and surrender to Him.





Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. [Re: teresaq] #107787
01/25/09 11:39 AM
01/25/09 11:39 AM
C
Colin  Offline
Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
God is holy - we aren't!

Our natures separate us! - God's and ours...

God's actions have intervened in that separation, but even that only closed the gap by the Son of God taking the nature which is and shall remain separated from God. It is our lives and righteousness given us which brings our existence back to God: the Father "for Christ's sake" is able to express his love for us.

God is holy and wrath against sin...but equally merciful and graceous.

Re: The Veneration of the Saints Replaced the Pagan Worship of the Dead. [Re: Colin] #107793
01/28/09 05:20 AM
01/28/09 05:20 AM
1
11thhourworker  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Wisconsin, USA
This pagan worship opens the door to satan,to decieve those who practice it,such as dead relatives,appearing to them,but in reality they are just demonic fallen angels,DEAD PEOPLE CANT HELP ANY ONE ,GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING ,he deserves all of our worship,anything else is idol worship,and making a human like a gOD which takes us back to one of the 1st lies the devil told eve,in the garden,cathy


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