Here's what you wrote: "How does God decide which to allow and which not to? I don't know that it's possible to say exactly why, but a possible guiding principle might be to allow that which will in the long run maximize freedom for the universe as a whole. Another way of answering the question is that God works in such as way as to bring sin to an end as quickly as possible."

Tom, this doesn't even come close to answering my question. My question assumes there are good reasons why God permits evil men and angels to harm good and innocent people. Therefore, my question is - How does God prevent them from exceeding His established limits? So far you haven't answered this question.


The texts describe how the angels used force to ensure things played out properly, that things did not exceed God's established limits. Do you agree that the passages I posted portray angels doing things to prevent evil men and angles from exceeding God's limits?

You quoted the wrong thing. This was in answer to a different question. Actually I should have said I answered this on the first page, because I asked for clarification ("You mean like Job?"), which you provided ("yes"), and then I responded to that.(quote from GC 36) It's all on the first page of this thread.



We discussed this. Look on the first page of this thread.



I asked for a text dealing with God's using physical force to constrain men, which is what you said He does, and you gave me 12 or 15 text speaking of angels. So I asked for just 1 dealing with my question, or to put it in your words, and you refused. So I asked again, and you've refused again.

So I'll ask again. You wrote that God uses physical force to prevent evil men from going past His established limits. How does He do this? With an invisible force field? Something else? What?

Regarding your question, they don't address my question, because they don't speak of physical force being used to constrain men.

How does God use "physical force" to prevent evil men from doing things. I'm particularly interested int the "physical force" part of your assertion.

MM, I've been waiting for your answer to Tom's question, too.

The only answer I can imagine you have given is that God farms it out to hit men (or hit angels, as the case may be).

I am talking about God using physical force to prevent evil men and evil angels to prevent them from exceeding His established limits. The quotes I posted depict holy angels using physical force to do it. I believe this illustrates how God does it.

I have no idea what you are referring to on the first page of this thread which you feel answers the question. Please repost it. Thank you.

Regarding request of repost from first page:

M: And, how does He prevent them from exceeding His established limits and boundaries without violating their freedoms?

T: Can you be more specific on this one. Do you mean, for example, how God prevented Satan from killing Job?

T:Yes. How does God prevent evil men and angels from doing things to others that would go beyond what He is willing to allow?

M:Here's something which speaks to this:

EGW:We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. (GC 36)

T:This speaks of "the restraining power of God" being used to protect us.

You asserted before that God uses physical force to restrain evil men. I've been asking how you see that God does this. You say here that somehow the quotes you posted "illustrate" this. Illustrate it how? How does God use physical force to restrain evil men?

Tom, the GC 36 simply says God restrains evil. But it doesn't explain how.

And, the quotes I posted depicts holy angels using physical force which is how God does it. He does it indirectly.

You're saying angels use physical force against evil men? Like an invisible force field?

Not like a force shield, but like the way described in the quotes I posted. For example:

Satan had questioned whether Jesus was the Son of God. In his summary dismissal he had proof that he could not gainsay. Divinity flashed through suffering humanity. Satan had no power to resist the command. Writhing with humiliation and rage, he was forced to withdraw from the presence of the world's Redeemer. Christ's victory was as complete as had been the failure of Adam. {DA 130.3}

Even the devils were forced to confess, "Thou art the Holy One of God." Mark 1:24. {DA 467.4}

Had not the Roman soldiers interposed, and forced back the maddened throng, the Saviour would have been torn in pieces. {DA 731.1}

The Egyptians could no longer discern the camp of the Hebrews, and were forced to halt. {PP 284.3}

Divinity flashed through humanity, and was seen by the scoffing priests and rulers. Was it acknowledged? Some acknowledged that He was the Christ, but the larger portion of those who upon these special occasions were forced to see that He was the Son of God, refused to receive Him. {5BC 1129.4}

These are the words of One of whom even His enemies were forced to admit: "Never man spake like this Man." {5T 433.2}

Even the men who were sent to spy upon His actions were forced to return with the report to those who sent them, "Never man spake like this man" (John 7:46). {TDG 143.3}

Tom, you still haven't explained how you think God prevents evil men and angels from exceeding His established limits in what He is willing to let them do to good and innocent people.