David did what many do today.
Drifted away from the source of salvation.

David had experienced justification, he had surrendered his life to do God's will.

But rather than counting himself dead to sin and alive in Christ, he started depending upon self.
When a person depends upon self the old man sneaks up on us.
As we depend upon self we start walking in our own paths, rather than in humble obedience in Christ.

That's what David did, he stopped walking in humble obedience with God, surrendered to His will, and started depending upon himself (this didn't happen overnight either) -- he was now king. Everything was going well, he was powerful, rich, getting used to getting his way as people bowed before him. Anything he wanted he could command and people delivered. So he wanted Bathseba....

But the deliberate sins against God put him right on the lowest level of the lost, the visible product of his drifting away!

There is no such thing as "once saved always saved" we need to walk the life of sanctification, -- in humble obedience, with our lives surrendered to Christ. Counting ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ. As long as we do that -- yes we are justified, Christ's righteousness covering us and empowering us.

And, Dedication & Teresa, when David turned from his faith experience of justification, he was kept by God's grace.

Notice, when Nathan confronted him with his sin....: God himself called David a man after his own heart. Ps 51 doesn't negate blood sacrifice, as I've heard Tom suggesting, but that sacrifice is nothing without a contrite heart.

Yes, the old man isn't killed by conversion, but merely paralysed, till we flick the switch and don't listen to the Spirit. The "destroy him" of Heb 2:14b actually means paralyse, I understand. David did write the psalm didn't he - well it's in the psalms! - guard the avenues of my soul, o Lord.

Since we are still getting used to leaning constantly on Jesus' presence by his Spirit, he is our Advocate till he is satisfied that we've both learned that spiritual skill & lifestyle, and are Christlike for it!

Only the Father already knows when that'll be. Sister White wrote that the disappointment of Christ at the rejection attitude against the 1888 message was indescribable: he didn't know it wasn't going to bring in the kingdom in four years, as she also later said, by about 1894 or so.

Where Colin? Where did I do this?

It seems like every post I ask you to quote things instead of making assertions like this with no evidence. Would you like it if I did this to you? Let's keep the golden rule in mind! I assume you wouldn't appreciate my claiming you said things you never said. Well, neither do I! Please don't do this!

So, again I ask, where did I suggest that Psalm 51 negates blood sacrifice?

no, my understanding is similar to dedications. david started drifting from the Lord. as long as we are partaking of Christs imparted righteousness we are "justified", have the "covering" of Christs imputed righteousness. when we start drifting away, or deliberately walk out from under that "umbrella" we are targets for the enemy.

yes, i do agree that david was a man after Gods own heart, but that was before he stumbled and fell, an example for us of what happens when we dont keep our eyes focused on Christ every minute of the day. i also believe he was a man after Gods own heart when he repented, but certainly not when he started drifting away.

paralyzed seems to be a good way to look at it. i think i like that.

and yes, i would agree that, in a sense, we are covered as we learn of, and how to depend on, Christ. but not with imputed righteousness. we would be covered the same as one who has not yet made their choice one way or the other.

The normal word for "destroy" is "apollumi". "katargeo" means:

1)to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively
2)to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

The word "paralytic" comes from the Greek "paralutikos." There's a very with the same root, but it looks to have a meaning more along the lines of "to become paralyzed" as opposed to "to paralyze."

Here are some other verses which use the word "katargeo"

There's no way I could find it now! It was comments of yours on these verses, where you appeared to take the text as literally meaning contrition is the basis of forgiveness without needing the prescribed sacrifice David is alluding to.


What is your view then of these verses on whether they dipense with the sacrifices God asks for, to be offered by his people by faith in promise of the Messiah, or is David merely saying that there is no power of God in the form of religion which lacks that contrite heart?

Remind me of your interpretation, please?

I'm sure I've never said this. For one thing, it's too vague.



Yes to the underlined portion.