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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: teresaq] #113792
05/29/09 11:31 PM
05/29/09 11:31 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The Orient
Originally Posted By: teresaq
i think of the "winds" being more symbolic of evil.

I agree, Teresa.

We also have to be careful not to apply the same rule in every place, for there are different usages and contexts to consider. Satan may be represented as a roaring lion, but then...Christ is also the "lion of the tribe of Judah." Symbols can be used for separate things, even opposite in meaning: the two goats in the sacrificial system, for example.

I have been careful here to apply the symbols within the context of the same book and the same author, because I would readily agree that "sea" can symbolize other things in other places. I don't happen to have understood it to mean evil in general, however. I suppose one might say that since money is the root of all evil, and "sea" represents monetary exchanges, business and commerce....but it seems a stretch.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Green Cochoa] #113801
05/30/09 03:05 AM
05/30/09 03:05 AM
teresaq  Offline
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i understand the saying to be, the love of money is the root of all evil...


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: teresaq] #113809
05/30/09 01:34 PM
05/30/09 01:34 PM
Tom  Offline
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Yes, that's right, teresa. It's not money that's the evil (which is, after all, simply a convenient way for exchanging goods and services) but the love of money that is the problem. Also many translations render the phrase "all kinds of evil" or "all sorts of evil."

In the Greek it says,"pantwn twn kakwn" which means literally "all the evils," (which, in English, we would say "all evils"), but Strong's has the following comment about the word "pantwn":

Quote:
collectively, some of all types

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile


So the translation, using the Greek word order, "for a root all sorts of evil is the love of money" looks to be correct.


(This is rather weird software. In preview mode it renders the Greek characters fine, but then when you actually post it, it doesn't, so I changed it to be transliterated. It turns out is messes that up too, so had to tweak that.)

Last edited by Tom; 05/30/09 01:51 PM.

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Tom] #113810
05/30/09 04:42 PM
05/30/09 04:42 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Sounds like a glitch that will hopefully be corrected in a future upgrade.
Quote:
(This is rather weird software. In preview mode it renders the Greek characters fine, but then when you actually post it, it doesn't, so I changed it to be transliterated. It turns out is messes that up too, so had to tweak that.)


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Daryl] #113811
05/30/09 04:48 PM
05/30/09 04:48 PM
Daryl  Offline
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We went off into two tangents in our Sabbath School class discussion on the topic of heaven:

1 - The fate of the wicked in the Lake of Fire as in eternal torment of Rev. 20:9-10.

2 - No marriage and child birth in heaven and on the New Earth. (There seemed to be a difference of opinion regarding marriage and children being born on the New Earth). This discussion was based on Matthew 22:23-30 and other texts dealing with this.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Daryl] #113839
05/30/09 08:46 PM
05/30/09 08:46 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Brazil
Did anyone express the opinion that there will be marriage in the New Earth despite Jesus' words to the contrary?

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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: teresaq] #113870
05/30/09 11:24 PM
05/30/09 11:24 PM
C
crater  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
Originally Posted By: teresaq
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

since the new heaven and new earth isnt symbolic its rather hard to think that the sea would be symbolic, i would think, but here is what egw said:

The sea divides friends. It is a barrier between us and those whom we love. Our associations are broken up by the broad, fathomless ocean. In the new earth there will be no more sea, and there shall pass there "no galley with oars." In the past many who have loved and served God have been bound by chains to their seats in galleys, compelled to serve the purpose of cruel, hardhearted men. The Lord has looked upon their suffering in sympathy and compassion. Thank God, in the earth made new there will be no fierce torrents, no engulfing ocean, no restless, murmuring waves (MS 33, 1911).

Ellen is apparently referencing Isaiah 33 here.
Quote:

20Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

21But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.

22For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

23Thy tacklings are loosed; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided; the lame take the prey.

24And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.

We can only speculate but surly there will be bodies of clear pure water in habited by imnumberal creatures. Am I remembering correctly that the earth made new wouldn't need a sun, the glory of God would be the light? If that were the case, there wouldn't be a need for a moon. Then there wouldn't be the effect of the moon upon the water as there is our oceans. Perhaps there will be no need for boat or oar as perhaps we will walk on water? No need for scuba or snorkel as we will breath in the water? wink

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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: crater] #113873
05/30/09 11:35 PM
05/30/09 11:35 PM
teresaq  Offline
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1Ch 1:19 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of the one was Peleg; because in his days the earth was divided: and his brother's name was Joktan.

some see in this as continents breaking apart and oceans coming into being.

it seems that God would restore the earth to His original intention.
When God had formed the earth, there were mountains, hills, and plains, and interspersed among them were rivers and bodies of water. The earth was not one extensive plain, but the monotony of the scenery was broken by hills and mountains, not high and ragged as they now are, but regular and beautiful in shape. The bare, high rocks were never seen upon them, but lay beneath the surface, answering as bones to the earth. The waters were regularly dispersed. The hills, mountains, and very beautiful plains, were adorned with plants and flowers, and tall, majestic trees of every description, which were many times larger, and much more beautiful, than trees now are. The air was pure and healthful, and the earth seemed like a noble palace. Angels beheld and rejoiced at the wonderful and beautiful works of God. {3SG 33.1}

the ocean is beautiful with the waves......


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Daryl] #113916
05/31/09 06:11 PM
05/31/09 06:11 PM
Will  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
From what I have found in Scripture, Heaven is a real place with events happening, and is populated.
For example, we know the angels are there, and that a certain type of angel surrounds God, and His Throne.
We will not live in heaven for eternity, but on the new earth, but we will be in heaven for the 1,000 years, while satan and his angels are here alone.
After all is said and done we could say it will be heaven on earth laugh
Now regarding no sea etc.. I am wondering since the new earth will be like How Eden was, wouldn't it make sense that there be an ocean? I like to think of God not only as My Father, and Creator who sent His only Son to take away my sins, but He's an artist.. The ocean and its creatures are the opposite of the air, and its creatures i.e. flying fish\Butterflies, deep oceans and valleys\Air and Mountains.. Its really amazing, or maybe I have watched too much of BBC's Planet Earth smile
We only have nuggets of information how it will really be though, but we can be sure it will be something like we have never seen, imagined or heard.
God Bless,
-Will

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Re: Lesson #9 - Heaven [Re: Will] #113923
05/31/09 06:50 PM
05/31/09 06:50 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Nova Scotia, Canada
Hi Will,

It's good to see you posting here. smile

Now to respond to what is being posted here.

It is my understanding that we will not need the sun and the moon within the New Jerusalem, but that we will still need the sun and the moon elsewhere.

We will also still have our daily and weekly cycle that will bring us to the 7th day Sabbath every week in which we will go and worship Him in person.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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