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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: asygo]
#116761
07/28/09 09:05 PM
07/28/09 09:05 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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V: Here we have a study and thus every incentive to follow up on the 'new commandment' of Johns gospel and his first letter. But the discussion thus far gets bogged down in the mire of the old commandments yet again. Last week I was challenged as having an erring focus when trying to look at the practical side, the new commandment side, instead of only looking at the ideal of sinless perfection.
M: Thomas, how are the new and old commandments different? Does one contradict the other? Or, do they envision and enjoin the same thing?
V: Seing that this is the thread for the SS lesson, I have taken inspiration from there, the wednesday page to be more specific. It referes to Johns first letter and to Johns gospel. There Jesus says:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
And John writes:
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
and
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
in the third and fourth chapters respectively. Thomas, thank you for posting those passages. However, please explain how you think they address the questions I posted above. Thank you. 1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. Also, what do you mean by “the mire of the old commandments” and “the ideal of sinless perfection”?
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: asygo]
#116762
07/28/09 09:22 PM
07/28/09 09:22 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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The "new commandment" was not really new, since Jesus gave it earlier in His ministry, and He gave it much earlier than that through Moses. But it seemed new because the people had misunderstood the "old" commandments. Amen. Ellen White wrote: The attribute that Christ appreciates most in man is charity (love) out of a pure heart. This is the fruit borne upon the Christian tree. "Every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God" (1 John 4:7). The Lord Jesus has said, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" (John 13:34, 35). {TDG 365.1}
When enshrouded in the cloudy pillar He spake to the children of Israel through Moses: "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord" (Lev. 19:17, 18). "These things I command you, that ye love one another" (John 15:17). {TDG 365.2}
Why was this called "a new commandment"? The disciples had not loved one another as Christ had loved them. They had not yet seen the fullness of the love that He was to reveal in man's behalf. They were yet to see Him dying on the cross for their sins. Through His life and death they were to receive a new conception of love. The command to "love one another" was to gain a new meaning in the light of His self-sacrifice. In the light shining from the cross of Calvary they were to read the meaning of the words, "As I have loved you, that ye also love one another" (RH June 30, 1910). {5BC 1140.1}
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." Luke 10:27. Just before He left His disciples to return to heaven, Christ declared: "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Here we see the standard lifted higher and still higher. "By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:34, 35. The disciples could not then comprehend Christ's words; but after His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension they understood His love as never before. They had seen it expressed in His suffering in the garden, in the judgment hall, and in His death on the cross of Calvary. {8T 164.3}
In this last meeting with His disciples, the great desire which Christ expressed for them was that they might love one another as He had loved them. Again and again He spoke of this. "These things I command you," He said repeatedly, "that ye love one another." His very first injunction when alone with them in the upper chamber was, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." To the disciples this commandment was new; for they had not loved one another as Christ had loved them. He saw that new ideas and impulses must control them; that new principles must be practiced by them; through His life and death they were to receive a new conception of love. The command to love one another had a new meaning in the light of His self-sacrifice. The whole work of grace is one continual service of love, of self-denying, self-sacrificing effort. During every hour of Christ's sojourn upon the earth, the love of God was flowing from Him in irrepressible streams. All who are imbued with His Spirit will love as He loved. The very principle that actuated Christ will actuate them in all their dealing one with another. {DA 677.2} The passages posted above make it clear to me that what was "new" was the love of God demonstrated in the actual crucifixion of Christ. Everything else up to that point was symbolic. A: What we need to focus on is walking in the light as He is in the light, then His blood cleanses from all unrighteousness. It's impossible to walk with Jesus and be unloving at the same time. Amen. We are finally free to be like Jesus. How sweet! Ellen White wrote: "A new commandment I give unto you," Christ said, "That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." John 13:34. What a wonderful statement; but, oh, how poorly practiced! In the church of God today brotherly love is sadly lacking. Many who profess to love the Saviour do not love one another. Unbelievers are watching to see if the faith of professed Christians is exerting a sanctifying influence upon their lives; and they are quick to discern the defects in character, the inconsistencies in action. Let Christians not make it possible for the enemy to point to them and say, Behold how these people, standing under the banner of Christ, hate one another. Christians are all members of one family, all children of the same heavenly Father, with the same blessed hope of immortality. Very close and tender should be the tie that binds them together. {AA 550.1}
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116763
07/28/09 09:29 PM
07/28/09 09:29 PM
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Thomas, I thought you would like the practical nature of the following passage: There are souls who are starving for sympathy, starving for the bread of life; but they have no confidence to make known their great need. Those who bear the responsibilities in connection with the work of God should understand that they are under the most solemn obligation to help these souls; and they would be prepared to help them, if they themselves had retained the soft, subduing influence of the love of Christ. Do these poor souls, ready to die, look to them for help? No; they did this until they could have no hope of help from that quarter. They see not a hand stretched out to save. {TM 353.1}
The matter has been presented to me thus: A drowning man, vainly struggling with the waves, discovers a boat, and with his last remaining strength succeeds in reaching it, and lays hold upon its side. In his weakness he cannot speak, but the agony upon his face would excite pity in any heart that was touched with human tenderness. But do the occupants of the boat stretch out their hands to lift him in? No! All heaven looks on as these men beat off the feeble, clinging hands, and a suffering fellow being sinks beneath the waves, to rise no more. This scene has been enacted over and over again. It has been witnessed by One who gave His life for the ransom of just such souls. The Lord has reached down His own hand to save. The Lord Himself has done the work which He left for man to do, in revealing the pity and compassion of Christ toward sinners. Jesus says, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Calvary reveals to every one of us the depths of that love. {TM 353.2}
There are souls in their darkness, full of remorse and pain and anguish, who still feel that God is just and good. The Lord is keeping alive the spark of hope in their hearts. The poor, darkened soul feels, If I could only appear before God, and plead my case, He would pity for Christ's sake, and this horrible fear and agony would be relieved. He has tried to speak to men, and has been rudely repulsed, reproved, taunted by his supposed friends. Sometimes the reproaches heaped upon his head have well-nigh destroyed the last spark of hope. The soul that is conscious of sincere and honest intentions finds he has less to fear from God than from men who have hearts of steel. The soul wrenched with human agony turns away from the misjudgment and condemnation of men who cannot read the heart, yet have taken it upon them to judge their fellowmen. He turns to One who is without a shadow of misapprehension, One who knows all the impulses of the heart, who is acquainted with all the circumstances of temptation. God knows every deed of the past life, and yet in consideration of all this, the troubled soul is ready to trust his case with God, knowing that He is a God of mercy and compassion. {TM 354.1}
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116795
07/29/09 02:29 AM
07/29/09 02:29 AM
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We are finally free to be like Jesus. How sweet! Or along the lines of the lesson's title, free to walk in the light.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116916
07/31/09 04:49 PM
07/31/09 04:49 PM
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Thomas, I thought you would like the practical nature of the following passage: There are souls who are starving for sympathy, starving for the bread of life; but they have no confidence to make known their great need. Those who bear the responsibilities in connection with the work of God should understand that they are under the most solemn obligation to help these souls; and they would be prepared to help them, if they themselves had retained the soft, subduing influence of the love of Christ. Do these poor souls, ready to die, look to them for help? No; they did this until they could have no hope of help from that quarter. They see not a hand stretched out to save. {TM 353.1}
The matter has been presented to me thus: A drowning man, vainly struggling with the waves, discovers a boat, and with his last remaining strength succeeds in reaching it, and lays hold upon its side. In his weakness he cannot speak, but the agony upon his face would excite pity in any heart that was touched with human tenderness. But do the occupants of the boat stretch out their hands to lift him in? No! All heaven looks on as these men beat off the feeble, clinging hands, and a suffering fellow being sinks beneath the waves, to rise no more. This scene has been enacted over and over again. It has been witnessed by One who gave His life for the ransom of just such souls. The Lord has reached down His own hand to save. The Lord Himself has done the work which He left for man to do, in revealing the pity and compassion of Christ toward sinners. Jesus says, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Calvary reveals to every one of us the depths of that love. {TM 353.2}
There are souls in their darkness, full of remorse and pain and anguish, who still feel that God is just and good. The Lord is keeping alive the spark of hope in their hearts. The poor, darkened soul feels, If I could only appear before God, and plead my case, He would pity for Christ's sake, and this horrible fear and agony would be relieved. He has tried to speak to men, and has been rudely repulsed, reproved, taunted by his supposed friends. Sometimes the reproaches heaped upon his head have well-nigh destroyed the last spark of hope. The soul that is conscious of sincere and honest intentions finds he has less to fear from God than from men who have hearts of steel. The soul wrenched with human agony turns away from the misjudgment and condemnation of men who cannot read the heart, yet have taken it upon them to judge their fellowmen. He turns to One who is without a shadow of misapprehension, One who knows all the impulses of the heart, who is acquainted with all the circumstances of temptation. God knows every deed of the past life, and yet in consideration of all this, the troubled soul is ready to trust his case with God, knowing that He is a God of mercy and compassion. {TM 354.1} Yes, it is a good word. May I be less like the men in the boat and more like Jesus each day. If the chuch was less like the boats occupants and more like Jesus, there would be more christians in the world today.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116918
07/31/09 05:05 PM
07/31/09 05:05 PM
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V: Here we have a study and thus every incentive to follow up on the 'new commandment' of Johns gospel and his first letter. But the discussion thus far gets bogged down in the mire of the old commandments yet again. Last week I was challenged as having an erring focus when trying to look at the practical side, the new commandment side, instead of only looking at the ideal of sinless perfection.
M: Thomas, how are the new and old commandments different? Does one contradict the other? Or, do they envision and enjoin the same thing?
V: Seing that this is the thread for the SS lesson, I have taken inspiration from there, the wednesday page to be more specific. It referes to Johns first letter and to Johns gospel. There Jesus says:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
And John writes:
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
and
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
in the third and fourth chapters respectively. Thomas, thank you for posting those passages. However, please explain how you think they address the questions I posted above. Thank you. Well, I think they may be answering a different question than the one above. 1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
Also, what do you mean by “the mire of the old commandments” and “the ideal of sinless perfection”?
By "mire of the old commandments" I mean that the focus is often upon them in such a way that their purpose is forgotten and they become empty promises. As some of the recent threads have shown, their true purpose may even be rejected and with it the scripture that attempts to give it. By "looking at the ideal of sinless perection" I mean that it is something that can never be achieved by your own effort or any effort that rests on a strive to achieve it. I mean that it is a side effect of looking only to Jesus. Look at what He did and try to do likewise and you may at the end of your days find that your life was described by God as perfect. Look to your everyday life and strive to lead a perfect life and you may find at the end of your days that you lived a life where you are described by God as a stranger and an impostor.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: vastergotland]
#116923
07/31/09 06:37 PM
07/31/09 06:37 PM
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By "looking at the ideal of sinless perection" I mean that it is something that can never be achieved by your own effort or any effort that rests on a strive to achieve it.
I mean that it is a side effect of looking only to Jesus. Look at what He did and try to do likewise and you may at the end of your days find that your life was described by God as perfect.
Look to your everyday life and strive to lead a perfect life and you may find at the end of your days that you lived a life where you are described by God as a stranger and an impostor. i hope you dont mind. it seemed to me the thought needed to stand alone to be seen clearly.
Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?
Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.
Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: Mountain Man]
#116942
08/01/09 05:29 AM
08/01/09 05:29 AM
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Arnold, do you agree with the idea that what made the commandment to live and love like God "new" is the unprecedented demonstration of love on the cross? I'm not comfortable with the suggestion that it only seemed "new" because it had been forgotten over time. I'm not sure I agree with it. But since the "new" command was to love each other as Jesus loves us, if there was a new revelation regarding how much Jesus loves us, the extent of the command would have a "new" element. At this time, I would be comfortable either way.
By God's grace, Arnold
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Re: Lesson #4 - Walking in the Light— Keeping His Commandments
[Re: asygo]
#116952
08/01/09 02:42 PM
08/01/09 02:42 PM
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If one says it was forgotten over time, that begs the question, "forgotten from when?" That is, when Jesus said to love others as He has loved us, when could this "new commandment" have been forgotten from? Or, to ask it another way, when did someone love as Jesus loved us?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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