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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#119447
09/18/09 06:59 PM
09/18/09 06:59 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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But what happens when all the coal plants are no longer? Wonderful! Then maybe we can go back to living a more agrarian lifestyle. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Are you sure you think it is a good idea? It would involve a noticeable step down in living conditions.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: kland]
#119450
09/18/09 07:08 PM
09/18/09 07:08 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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huh?
My point was all the mercury still in all the lightbulbs spread around. Ah...sorry, I didn't catch that. Without the coal plants we wouldn't have much electricity...that's what I was thinking about. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: kland]
#119529
09/20/09 08:45 AM
09/20/09 08:45 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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You make it sound like your choises above are supported by published scientific articles. But you have yet to refer to any such material. Why? If I am hearing you correctly, you are saying I cannot support my choice of the null hypothesis through published scientific articles? Or are you merely saying that my choice to believe Ellen White is wrong? I am merely asking why you have not done so already? Considering your claim to be able to do it. If you understand the null hypothesis, the burden of support is with those who disagree with it. This is a novel use of null hypothesis. Usually it is the researcher who makes a hypothesis and then tries to disprove it. Failing to disprove the null hypothesis he concludes that it stands a little stronger than before and then proceeds to try and falsify it again. That he would require someone else to disprove it is not what would happen in the scientific community. I have mentioned the recombinomics reference twice and you can find the link on the SWINE FLU thread if you are asking for support for the creation of the swine flu and others.
Id wish the page would have told the purpose of the experiment. Was it to study how recombinomics work in nature or was it something else? If you are looking for support that vaccines don't work, I looked up some new ones and added several to my collection. It has convinced me to be stronger in my principles than ever before. Thanks for the encouragement. Here's one you can read online: "Resurgence of Disease in a Highly Immunized Population of Children"http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/331/1/16I'd be most interested in hearing your response to it. Especially in regards to the following: - "Eighty-five percent of the children 6 to 12 years old who had pertussis had received four or more doses of the DPT vaccine."
- "We cannot claim that one vaccine is less efficacious than the other, since a properly designed efficacy study has not been performed."
What I find amusing is that even though the older children were the ones coming down with pertussis, and these "who had been appropriately immunized", their conclusion is to recommend an "accelerated schedule of DPT vaccination". Huh? These children were timely vaccinated appropriate for their age, and yet more got the disease not only "correlated" with doses received, but at an older age. So we need to step up the vaccination schedule? I have no reason to believe these researchers were being dishonest. They were only trying to make sense of the observations. Stepping up the immunizations is the only thing they could see because, "it's all we've got". They just don't know. What I find interesting is comments they made about the outbreak occurring in the "suburban white middle class, who had private insurance and excellent access to medical care". They suggested it may be biased due to reporting. The culture shouldn't even be considered since they were vaccinated, if vaccinations work. May I suggest it might have to do with what the white middle class may be eating or doing? I'd like to hear your comments on the article and now it's your turn to present an article supporting your point of view on vaccinations. I dont know that I have many comments to the article. It was reportive in nature and observations are observations. I suggest this article , although I have not read more than the abstract due to the costs involved in reading the proper thing.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#119644
09/22/09 08:12 PM
09/22/09 08:12 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
Midland
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huh?
My point was all the mercury still in all the lightbulbs spread around. Ah...sorry, I didn't catch that. Without the coal plants we wouldn't have much electricity...that's what I was thinking about. Blessings, Green Cochoa. The idea behind the trash-the-lightbulb movement is to reduce carbon emissions. Coal plants are targeted. That doesn't mean there won't be electricity produced. They want wind or solar. Which isn't feasible at the current times -- unless you there isn't much electricity. Or nuclear is another option. The idea is coal plants will be done away with. Therefore, any comparison of mercury in the CFLs to that from coal plant generation is not-relevant.
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: vastergotland]
#119645
09/22/09 08:31 PM
09/22/09 08:31 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
Midland
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This is a novel use of null hypothesis. Usually it is the researcher who makes a hypothesis and then tries to disprove it. Failing to disprove the null hypothesis he concludes that it stands a little stronger than before and then proceeds to try and falsify it again. That he would require someone else to disprove it is not what would happen in the scientific community. What do you say is the null hypothesis in my statement that vaccines do not work? Because, what you just said, I cannot understand. Id wish the page would have told the purpose of the experiment. Was it to study how recombinomics work in nature or was it something else? I thought the page stated it clear enough, but being one familiar with the site, maybe it is found elsewhere. They are not an anti-vaccine site. In fact, they are promoting vaccines. As I understand it, they are going about it where if they can show how they can cause viruses to recombine and form new ones, then that gives reason to develop vaccines, and predict which ones are needed. If the bird and pig flu virsuses can be made to recombine, then there is need for a vaccine. Seems sinister to me. They justify it by saying we need to know it. I dont know that I have many comments to the article. It was reportive in nature and observations are observations. I suggest this article , although I have not read more than the abstract due to the costs involved in reading the proper thing. You realize that it could be said that your link could be just as easily dismissed with a "reportive in nature and observations are observations". Without seeing the text, it sounds very similar to mine, especially their conclusions. I await an article that you can present the full text of so we can discuss it.
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: Will]
#119648
09/22/09 09:30 PM
09/22/09 09:30 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014
Veteran Member
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
Quebec
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I will be placing an order for these two books Crater, I love reading about this stuff, Thanks!! I will also be preparing the baby food when he can eat, just using a blender really. There is a book on making baby food at home which is really interesting. God Bless, Will Hi Will, I recommend the numerous good SDA books from Agatha Thrash relating to health: Natural Health Care for Your Child, Nutrition for Vegetarians, Home Remedies, Natural Remedies, Rx:Charcoal, The Animal Connection, etc. And there are resources by Dr. Michael Klaper on raising vegan children, though I've not read these. But here's one article I just found: http://www.vegansa.com/veganism-vegan-children.php____________
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: kland]
#119665
09/23/09 05:50 AM
09/23/09 05:50 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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This is a novel use of null hypothesis. Usually it is the researcher who makes a hypothesis and then tries to disprove it. Failing to disprove the null hypothesis he concludes that it stands a little stronger than before and then proceeds to try and falsify it again. That he would require someone else to disprove it is not what would happen in the scientific community. What do you say is the null hypothesis in my statement that vaccines do not work? Id assume your null hypothesis is that vaccination does not work. Then you present data which is a bit ambiguous but never the less leans towards vaccination having an effect, even though perhaps not such a strong effect as you had thought. Now, using the normal definition of a null hypothesis, also supported by the link I give below the following happens. The null hypothesis that vaccinations do not work is rejected by the data which show that vaccination reduce disease and further that those who are vaccinated and still get the particular disease have much milder symptoms than what would have been expected. What I would expect is that you would have posted the results of your research together with the conclusion given. What happened was that you posted the results but claimed that the conclusions where the exact opposite of what they really where. Because, what you just said, I cannot understand.
Here is the same thing in other peoples words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesisHope you can understand this better. Id wish the page would have told the purpose of the experiment. Was it to study how recombinomics work in nature or was it something else? I thought the page stated it clear enough, but being one familiar with the site, maybe it is found elsewhere. They are not an anti-vaccine site. In fact, they are promoting vaccines. As I understand it, they are going about it where if they can show how they can cause viruses to recombine and form new ones, then that gives reason to develop vaccines, and predict which ones are needed. If the bird and pig flu virsuses can be made to recombine, then there is need for a vaccine. Seems sinister to me. They justify it by saying we need to know it. I would think it only becomes sinister if they plan on releasing the new virus into the human population. If they either destroy the virus or use it to produce vaccine without spreading either vaccine or virus in anticipation of the day when the same virus occurs naturally, then I fail to see the big problem. I dont know that I have many comments to the article. It was reportive in nature and observations are observations. I suggest this article , although I have not read more than the abstract due to the costs involved in reading the proper thing. You realize that it could be said that your link could be just as easily dismissed with a "reportive in nature and observations are observations". Without seeing the text, it sounds very similar to mine, especially their conclusions. I await an article that you can present the full text of so we can discuss it. That a document is "reportive in nature" does not in my view dismiss it. It simply means that it is a different kind of document from one where an experiment has been made. Of course you could not do experiments with virus on humans so there is not really any choice as to whether such a paper is reportive or not. Besides, since the articles are basically the same as you say above and the conclusions presented here say that "Although pertussis vaccination coverage is very high in France, the organism is still circulating, affecting, within the pediatric population, mostly non- or incompletely vaccinated infants. These results strongly support the importance of adhering to the immunization schedule and suggest introducing booster dose(s) to prolong vaccine immunity and reduce the exposure to Bordetella pertussis of infants too young to be immunized." it seems that your position is in some want of support in our discussion. I can read the entire article from my previous post through the local university library. Maybe you can try that aswell.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: vastergotland]
#119688
09/23/09 07:56 PM
09/23/09 07:56 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
Midland
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What happened was that you posted the results but claimed that the conclusions where the exact opposite of what they really where. You are very confusing in your writing. I am not aware of saying what it appears you are saying I said. The null hypothesis that vaccinations do not work is rejected by the data which show that vaccination reduce disease and further that those who are vaccinated and still get the particular disease have much milder symptoms than what would have been expected. And that's what I'd like to see. I await your presentation of an article we can view and discuss.
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: kland]
#119775
09/26/09 02:16 PM
09/26/09 02:16 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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I agree that the earliest-made vaccinations were of great general benefit to world health. I am thinking specifically of the following: Rabies (the very first vaccination ever made, by Louis Pasteur) Polio (by Jonas Saulk) Tetanus Small-pox And there may be one or two more with similar gold-medal track records. However, the modern vaccines are seemingly made for different purposes entirely, and they are much less humanitarian in nature. Consider: Hepatitis B vaccine -- to prevent an STD, but given to newborns as if they will be sexually active right away! Flu shots -- must be administered every year to keep those cash registers ticking! HPV vaccine (cervical cancer vaccine) -- there are at least two of these, administered to girls 9 - 26 years of age. No side effects, of course....hah! (See below.) The side effects include pain, swelling, itching, bruising, and redness at the injection site, headache, fever, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, and fainting. Sometimes fainting is accompanied by falling with injury, as well as shaking or stiffening and other seizure-like activity. Only a doctor or health care professional can decide if GARDASIL is right for you or your daughter. Add to these vaccines for measles, mumps, chicken pox, diphtheria, typhoid, swine flu (H1N1), etc. (The list is nearly endless, and each one means more mercury injected into the body.) As a child, I experienced the actual diseases of chicken pox, German measles, etc. and thus received my "vaccine" the natural way--the God-given immune system. I survived, with no damage done. I have experienced many illnesses, and survived them. (And because I have antibodies to so many things, and have traveled widely, the Red Cross will not accept blood donations from me.) All of which points to one question: Are these modern vaccines really necessary and beneficial? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Your health is under attack!
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#119863
09/28/09 02:09 PM
09/28/09 02:09 PM
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OP
SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,431
Midland
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And there may be one or two more with similar gold-medal track records. However, the modern vaccines are seemingly made for different purposes entirely, and they are much less humanitarian in nature. I'm of the position that the purpose has not changed. It's just becoming more clear to ascertain it. You list those diseases of the past with "gold-medal track records". I agree, it is commonly accepted, generally recognized as vaccines having been beneficial in curing them. All I'm asking for is scientific evidence using the scientific method. It was commonly accepted that the universe revolved around the earth. Commonly held beliefs do not make a thing true. Nor do coincidental correlations, nor confounded ones. Besides me not having seen anyone having presented such scientific experiments, you may want to search for the phrase, "Louis Pasteur" "Antoine Bechamp", and see if perhaps the past purpose of vaccines remain the same as the current purpose.
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