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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Tom]
#123474
02/21/10 05:46 AM
02/21/10 05:46 AM
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Do you believe Jesus revealed the Father in the OT through His words and works? If so, do you believe Jesus’ revelation of the Father in the OT was a lesser, inferior revelation when compared to His revelation of the Father in the NT? I've answered this many times. I've explained that God was constrained in the OT by the hardness of the hearts of the people He was dealing with. His actions were not correctly discerned by anyone but Christ. Christ understood what was happening in the OT, and said "The words I hear of my Father, I speak, and the works I see Him performing, I do." Where did He hear and see these things? From the OT. I've said this many times. So when Christ said, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father." He was saying, "Let me be your picture of God." He was saying that as He lived is how *He* perceived God to be like, from His study of the OT. So the correct understanding of the OT is given by Jesus Christ. As we study His life and teachings, we see God's true character. However, if we look at the OT and see things depicting God to be different than the portrayal of Christ, we're not getting things right. I've pointed this out, and pointed out that even holy angels didn't understand everything until the revelation of Christ. So the problem is not with God, but with us, and our misunderstanding of the OT. The problem is with us. In order to help us, because He had pity on us, and loves us, and wants us to understand the truth, God sent His Son in order to reveal Himself to us. But turning from all lesser representations, we behold God in Jesus. Looking unto Jesus we see that it is the glory of our God to give. "I do nothing of Myself," said Christ; "the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father." "I seek not Mine own glory," but the glory of Him that sent Me. John 8:28; 6:57; 8:50; 7:18. In these words is set forth the great principle which is the law of life for the universe. All things Christ received from God, but He took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all. And thus through Christ the circuit of beneficence is complete, representing the character of the great Giver, the law of life. {DA 21.2}
In heaven itself this law was broken. Sin originated in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world. {DA 21.3}
The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. {DA 22.1}
Notice the first sentence: But turning from all lesser representations, we behold God in Jesus. All throughout this forum and threads you have asserted Jesus’ revelation of the Father in the NT trumps all other revelations. Inspiration teaches us that Christ is the greatest representation. For example: 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son or But turning from all lesser representations, we behold God in Jesus. At least that’s the impression I get from what you’ve written. I don’t want to take the time to find one of the places where you’ve said as much, so please simply state your belief here. Do you believe Jesus’ revelation of the Father in the OT is as true and clear as His revelation of the Father in the NT? And, more to the point, do you believe His description of the final judgment in the OT is as clear as His description of it in the NT? Or, do you think He added details in the NT not found in the OT? If so, please name them here. I've said it is superior to all others. Not "trumps," which has a different connotation. Regarding the questions, I've addressed this above. T: No, my answer is "it depends." It depends upon what you mean by your question. As I've explained, forgiveness involves different aspects. I actually think I gave a very full answer to this question. I went into detail regarding the different aspects of forgiveness, and gave examples. I don't know why you're still asking this. My answer was a detailed and complete answer. Why not refer to that, or ask me something about that?
M:I’m talking about pardon in the sense of God actually pardoning their sins, that is, pardon is written next to their sins in the books above so they can be permanently blotted out later on. Obviously a person would have to individual repent, as the SOP puts it, for this to happen. Christ couldn't have been praying for God to do this, since God can't repent for someone else. T: As I stated before, I have no means of knowing this, baring some clear statement from inspiration. If I had to guess, I would guess not. Why do you think this is worth asking?
M:Why do you suspect they will not be in heaven? I said I don't know. You seem to think Jesus wanted to pardon them and set them free. If so, why? God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Christ gave His life for them. Why would you ask a question like this? Of course God wants to pardon people and set them free. You don't have any doubts about this, do you? If He was willing to pardon them and set them free, wouldn’t that suggest He felt they were worthy of pardon and salvation and a place in heaven? No. None of us are worthy. Otherwise, if they were rebellious and unrepentant why would He pardon them and set them free? Do you mean in the sense of having pardon written against their name? If you mean this, obviously this couldn't happen unless they repented. If you mean in the sense of what's in His heart, He forgives because He is love. M:Above you said you guess they will not be in heaven. Why do you think so? I said I didn't know. I said if I had to guess, that's how I'd guess. I said this based on their actions. Also, do you think Jesus knew in advance they were unrepentant and unpardonable and would not have responded appropriately to pardoning them and setting them free? I don't think this entered into things. Or, do you think He did not know for sure one way or another and that He was willing to try to see what they would do but couldn’t because of the hard-hearted COI? I don't think this has anything to do with anything. I’m asking these questions because I’m trying determine why you believe Jesus wanted to treat them in the same way He treated the woman. If this is what you're trying to determine, I can tell you it has nothing to do with the questions you're asking. God loved them, and gave His Son to die for them, and this is why He wanted to pardon them. Do you believe Jesus would pardon (see definition above) every sinner and set them free? Provided this is what they wanted, yes. Or, do you think there are times when Jesus would not pardon certain sinners because they are unpardonable? If you mean if people can so harden their heart that they can no longer respond to the offer of pardon, yes, I believe this is possible. If so, do you think He would have commanded Moses to stone them to death? If so, what? Actually, I don't think this question matters. I think you're whole conception of things is different than mine, so that whatever answer I give will be interpreted differently by you than what I intend. M: Do you agree it was Jesus who commanded Moses to stone sinners to death? And, do you believe it is within the character of God to command Moses to stone sinners to death because of the hard-heartedness of the COI?
T: You asked the first question above. Regarding the second, I believe it's in harmony with God's character for Him to have acted as He did. Where we disagree is in regards to how God acted. I believe He acted in a similar fashion as He did in regards to the divorce question, or the polygamy question, or the "can we have a king" question, or many other matters where God acted differently than His ideal will due to the hard-heartedness of the people with whom He was dealing. I believe God's ideal will was revealed in Jesus Christ, while here in the flesh, when He came for the specific purpose of revealing God.
What is your answer to the first question above? Do you believe when the Bible says Jesus “commanded” Moses to kill sinners that it actually means He merely “permitted” it? Also, do you believe the COI were less hard-hearted when Jesus was here in the flesh and that it enabled Him to treat sinners differently than He did in the OT? If not, if you believe as many do that they were actually more hard-hearted, what do you think made the difference in how and why Jesus treated them differently? Also, what do you think Jesus meant when He said, “Ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. . . If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.” Do you think Jesus treated them the same way He treated the woman led into adultery? Anyway, I think, again, that if it is your desire to understand God's character, the best way to approach this is to follow Ellen White's advice: It would be well for us to spend a thoughtful hour each day in contemplation of the life of Christ. We should take it point by point, and let the imagination grasp each scene, especially the closing ones. As we thus dwell upon His great sacrifice for us, our confidence in Him will be more constant, our love will be quickened, and we shall be more deeply imbued with His spirit. If we would be saved at last, we must learn the lesson of penitence and humiliation at the foot of the cross. {DA 83.4} M: Do you agree it was Jesus who commanded Moses to stone sinners to death? And, do you believe it is within the character of God to command Moses to stone sinners to death because of the hard-heartedness of the COI?
T: You asked the first question above. Regarding the second, I believe it's in harmony with God's character for Him to have acted as He did. Where we disagree is in regards to how God acted. I believe He acted in a similar fashion as He did in regards to the divorce question, or the polygamy question, or the "can we have a king" question, or many other matters where God acted differently than His ideal will due to the hard-heartedness of the people with whom He was dealing. I believe God's ideal will was revealed in Jesus Christ, while here in the flesh, when He came for the specific purpose of revealing God.
M:What is your answer to the first question above? Do you believe when the Bible says Jesus “commanded” Moses to kill sinners that it actually means He merely “permitted” it? Also, do you believe the COI were less hard-hearted when Jesus was here in the flesh and that it enabled Him to treat sinners differently than He did in the OT? If not, if you believe as many do that they were actually more hard-hearted, what do you think made the difference in how and why Jesus treated them differently? When Jesus Christ came in the flesh, His express purpose was to reveal the Father. Everything Christ did was for that purpose. He was God in human flesh. He was a living explanation of what God would be like if He were a human being. It was not possible when leading the COI, and not a human being, for Christ to do what He did as a human being. Also, what do you think Jesus meant when He said, “Ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. . . If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.” I think he means if we don't see our need for Him, we'll be lost. Do you think Jesus treated them the same way He treated the woman led into adultery? I think this is an apples and oranges question. Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” Her accusers thought they were perfect and upright. They felt qualified to stone her to death. Roman law alone prevented them. Ellen wrote, “The law specified that in punishment by stoning, the witnesses in the case should be the first to cast a stone. Now rising, and fixing His eyes upon the plotting elders, Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." And stooping down, He continued writing on the ground. He had not set aside the law given through Moses, nor infringed upon the authority of Rome.” {DA 461.4}
The reason I’m asking the question is due to the fact you are insisting circumstances forced Jesus to treat sinners differently in the OT than He did in the NT. MM, you do realize that Christ wasn't a human being in the OT, don't you? Do you not think this matters? The truth is, however, He gave the rulers permission to stone the woman to death.True, He knew they wouldn’t, and He really didn’t want them to stone her to death, but the point is, He told them to do it. As such, not one of them was able to accuse Jesus of disregarding the laws of God. You've said one right thing here, and a couple of wrong things. The right thing is that Christ responded very carefully, in such a way that He could not be accused of disregarding the law. The wrong things is that He was not giving the rulers permission to stone the woman, nor was He telling them to do so. Now, what does the law say about this particular situation, that is, about the rulers leading a woman into sin for the sole purpose of entrapping a popular preacher so that they can condemn him to death? Would Jesus have commanded Moses to stone her death under such circumstances if such a case had been presented to Him in the OT? I really don't understand why you want to center your studies on the OT. I don't think this is the right approach. I think what EGW suggested is the right approach. T: Basically I believe God is against violence. I believe God is non-violent. I believe compelling power is only to be found under Satan's government, and that the Lord's principles are not of this order. I believe the exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government. I believe God's will was clearly revealed in Christ. I believe discerning God's will from the OT is much more difficult, and most people (everyone before Christ, and everyone since who doesn't take into account Christ's life and teachings) get it wrong. I think even holy angels, who are of much greater intelligence and have no sin to cloud their thinking, were unclear in regards to things until Christ's revelation.
M:Everything you said about God above is true. No one here that I know of disputes it. There are quite a few who believed that God will set people on fire to cause them to "suffer torture" (GC 535), and that God routinely did violent things throughout the Bible, especially in the OT. The question is, however, do you believe Jesus acted forcefully or violently when He commanded Moses to stone sinners to death? And, do you think the holy angels felt Jesus acted forcefully or violently when He commanded Moses to kill sinners? Please answer these questions with a yes or no. Thank you. Of course, please feel free to explain your answer after you answer yes or no. I can't answer these questions yes or no, as you have certain assumptions built into them that I disagree with. I can say, however, that I believe that the exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government, that compelling power is found only Satan's government, that the Lord's principles are not of this order, and not only did God not act violently here (I'm using "violently" in an ordinary sense, not as you use it, which allows for violent actions), but He never did, never has, and never will.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Tom]
#123486
02/21/10 04:48 PM
02/21/10 04:48 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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Tom, do you believe Jesus commanded Moses to stone sinners to death? And, do you believe he obeyed Him? I don't see where you answered these two questions. It would be helpful to know what you believe. Please answer these two questions with either yes or no. Thank you.
PS - I understand you believe we should view the words and works of Jesus in the OT in light of His words and works in the NT. I also understand you believe the same principles that led Jesus to permit divorce and polygamy explain why He commanded Moses to stone sinners to death. However, I also suspect you see a difference between Jesus permitting something and Jesus commanding something. Consequently, I suspect you do not believe Jesus commanded people to get divorced or to have more than one spouse. On the other hand, you have avoided saying whether or not you believe Jesus commanded Moses to stone sinners to death. I get the impression you believe Jesus permitted it rather than commanded it. Is that correct? I think God was working with the reality of the time, and was constrained to do the best with what He had to work with. You've been asking this question for years now. I've answered it many times. I've written and written and written on this. I presented the story of the father/hunter. I explained things in reference to that. If you don't understand what I think after all this, I'm sorry about. There's other things we can talk about. Do I have your permission to conclude, yes, you believe Jesus commanded Moses to kill sinners? And, can I conclude, yes, you believe Moses obeyed Jesus? PS - I understand you believe circumstances forced Jesus to do things He wished He didn't have to do. So, my question is - Do you think He "permitted" Moses to kill sinners or do you think He "commanded" Moses to do it? And, do you think Moses would have been guilty of sinning if he refused to kill them?
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123487
02/21/10 05:19 PM
02/21/10 05:19 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Tom, in your long post above you didn't answer my questions directly. I have no idea what you believe in relation to my questions. You insist we study the words and works of Jesus in the NT in order to understand His words and works in the OT. You insist we interpret everything He said and did in the OT in light of everything He said and did in the NT. In the NT Jesus told the rulers to cast stones at the woman. In the OT Jesus commanded Moses to stone sinners to death. In the NT Jesus was unable to pardon the sins of certain sinners. In the OT Jesus was unable to pardon the sins of certain sinners. In the OT Jesus withdrew His protection and permitted sinners to be killed. In the NT Jesus told the COI that He was going to withdrew His protection and permit them to be killed.
So, as you can, Jesus treated people in the OT and in the NT in exactly the same way.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123495
02/21/10 06:33 PM
02/21/10 06:33 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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Do I have your permission to conclude, yes, you believe Jesus commanded Moses to kill sinners? And, can I conclude, yes, you believe Moses obeyed Jesus? I believe God's ideal will was revealed by Jesus Christ while here in the flesh, and that the counsel in relation to capital punishment was similar to the counsel related to divorce, polygamy, having a king, the Old Covenant, attacking their enemies with armed weapons, an "eye for an eye", the cities of refuge, and many other dealings with them. God did the best that was possible under the circumstances, but His ideal will was revealed by Jesus Christ while here in the flesh. PS - I understand you believe circumstances forced Jesus to do things He wished He didn't have to do. So, my question is - Do you think He "permitted" Moses to kill sinners or do you think He "commanded" Moses to do it? I don't think it was God's ideal will that the sinners be killed. I think His ideal will was revealed by Jesus Christ. And, do you think Moses would have been guilty of sinning if he refused to kill them? The following comes to mind: Said the angel: "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet." Said the angel: "If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject." I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at "even," and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together.{1T 116.1} So how Moses should be judged would be dependent upon the light he had. Tom, in your long post above you didn't answer my questions directly. I have no idea what you believe in relation to my questions. You insist we study the words and works of Jesus in the NT in order to understand His words and works in the OT. The best way to understand God's character is to study the life of Christ, as EGW outlined. After having an understanding of God's character, we are in a better position to understand other portions of Scripture. This is what I've been saying. You insist we interpret everything He said and did in the OT in light of everything He said and did in the NT. What I've said is that Jesus Christ demonstrated by His life and teachings how *He* understood the OT, and our understanding of the OT should be in harmony with His. In the NT Jesus told the rulers to cast stones at the woman. If this is what you think, I think you've woefully misunderstood what He said. In the OT Jesus commanded Moses to stone sinners to death. In the NT Jesus was unable to pardon the sins of certain sinners. In the OT Jesus was unable to pardon the sins of certain sinners. In the OT Jesus withdrew His protection and permitted sinners to be killed. In the NT Jesus told the COI that He was going to withdrew His protection and permit them to be killed.
So, as you can, Jesus treated people in the OT and in the NT in exactly the same way. I haven't argued that God's character changed in any way, but that it has been misunderstood. I've said the best way to understand God's character is according to the advice EGW gave, to spend a thoughtful hour each day meditating upon the life of Christ.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Tom]
#123504
02/22/10 01:07 AM
02/22/10 01:07 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Tom, please answer the following questions: Do I have your permission to conclude, yes, you believe Jesus commanded Moses to kill sinners? And, can I conclude, yes, you believe Moses obeyed Jesus?
PS - Do you believe Jesus did not tell the rulers to stone the woman?
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123532
02/22/10 06:47 PM
02/22/10 06:47 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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MM, I've answered the question the best I can. You have certain presuppositions, so I can't answer "yes" or "no" without buying into those. So I've written out an explanation which accounts for how I see things.
Regarding the PS, Jesus did not condemn the woman, and answered the question in such a way that she would not be stoned. He was clever in the way He answered the question, so that he foiled their attempts to trap him. If you look at Jesus' intent, which is the important issue here (the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter), it's clear that He did not want her to be killed.
Let's not lose focus of the real issue here. This is the real issue. What was Jesus' will? Was it that the woman be killed? No, it wasn't. Was it that she be pardoned? Yes, it was.
Regarding your question, yes, Jesus was in effect telling them not to stone her. If would be as if He said, "Let he who is 1,000,000 years or older stone her" which is a set with no members. Also He was talking about a binary action where not doing something was equivalent to doing the reverse of the action (I'm bringing this up because sometimes not doing something is very different in effect than doing the reverse).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Tom]
#123541
02/22/10 07:37 PM
02/22/10 07:37 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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I agree Jesus did not intend for the rulers to kill her. However, the fact is, He told rulers who thought they were sinless to do it. In so doing He did not contradict the law. However, mercy is in keeping with the law. As such, Jesus did not disregard the law when He forgave her. Which came first, though, repentance or pardon? I believe Jesus forgave her because she was repentant. I do not, however, believe the Sabbath-breaker or the blasphemer were repentant. Therefore, Jesus commanded Moses to kill them. True, Jesus wished they were repentant so He could forgive them, but alas, they were unworthy and deserving of death. I believe Jesus would have treated the woman the same way had she been as unrepentant and rebellious as they were. You seem to think Jesus would have forgiven them the same as He forgave the woman had it not been for the hard-hearted Jews. I disagree. By the way, please apply my definition of pardon here.
Concerning whether or not you believe Jesus commanded Moses to kill sinners, well, the truth is you are a logical and godly person, so, it is reasonable to me to conclude you believe what the Bible says, which is, "The Lord commanded Moses . . . to stone him with stones". True, we disagree as to why Jesus commanded Moses to kill sinners, but the fact is too clear to misunderstand, namely, Jesus did indeed command Moses to kill sinners. It is also painfully clear that Moses would have incurred the wrath of God had he disobeyed Jesus and refused to kill them.
Another question is - Did Jesus ever command someone to kill a sinner when in reality they were like the woman and deserving of forgiveness? I don't think so. What do you believe?
PS - Just in case you're distracted by my use of the word "deserving" please consider what the Bible says about it:
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Acts 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1 Thessalonians 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thessalonians 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123548
02/23/10 03:44 PM
02/23/10 03:44 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
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Another question is - Did Jesus ever command someone to kill a sinner when in reality they were like the woman and deserving of forgiveness? I don't think so. What do you believe?
51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 "For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.
You have indicated that Jesus would have wanted to kill someone but didn't have a good chance to. The above inspired passage seems like an opportune time for Jesus to do some killing. His disciples thought so, too. What happened? When Jesus told the disciples that they did not know what manner of spirit they were, do you think He was really in a way complimenting them but telling them they should not try to be like God? But then, why didn't He call fire down on them as Elijah did?
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: kland]
#123549
02/23/10 04:02 PM
02/23/10 04:02 PM
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SDA Active Member 2021
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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kland,
Are you supposing that the disciples and Elijah were birds of a feather in terms of their "spirit"?
Speaking of birds and feathers...
I'm not able to create life, as God does, but I can raise animals under my tender care, and love them in a similar way to what God does with us. Now, let us suppose that I have a number of chickens and the bird flu enters in among them. Many birds get sick, very sick. I love them as my pets, having watched over them from the time when they were small. I might go into the chicken yard to save as many chickens as possible by killing the sick ones, mightn't I? Jesus also came to earth to save as many as possible. Even the ones which must die are loved. The love does not remove the disagreeable, painful, and ugly responsibility of purging the bad to save the good. Those which remain are rightly called the "remnant," and this terminology is found in the Bible.
God loves all. But not all are safe to preserve. Sometimes "destruction" is really "salvation."
Capital punishment was a blessing to God's people in similar fashion to God's curse of the ground being a blessing. It's all in how you choose to look at it. These things were given for the benefit and salvation of the righteous.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: Why did God command capital punishment?
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#123552
02/23/10 04:29 PM
02/23/10 04:29 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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You have indicated that Jesus would have wanted to kill someone but didn't have a good chance to. Please apologize for making this slanderous comment. Thank you.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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