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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123479
02/21/10 03:40 PM
02/21/10 03:40 PM
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Purity and holiness flow back to God, right. But are we 100% pure and holy? When a child obeys his parents because he loves them, is his obedience 100% motivated by selfless love for them? Can a child be 100% selfless? Are we spiritual children or spiritual adults? I like these "100%" questions. Jesus requires that we love God with "all" the heart, "all" the mind, "all" the soul, and "all" the strength. He does not appear to make any allowance for any taint, or any reserve, which is dedicated to enmity/hostility toward Him. In my view it is indeed possible for the Christian to manifest love for God and man, and to such an extent that "all", "100%", of the person is involved.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: StewartC]
#123482
02/21/10 04:01 PM
02/21/10 04:01 PM
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The fruit of the Spirit in our lives, even though tainted even .00000001% by sin, it can only be acceptable by the 100% perfect and untainted by sin righteousness of Jesus Christ.
In other words, if even our prayers are tainted .00000001% by sin, our prayers can only be acceptable by the 100% perfect and untainted by sin righteousness of Jesus Christ.
If, therefore, our prayers are tainted by sin, then why wouldn't our fruit also be tainted by sin?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Daryl]
#123490
02/21/10 05:33 PM
02/21/10 05:33 PM
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Yes, Daryl, I think I know the kind of thing you are referring to.
"The religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary, but passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. They ascend not in spotless purity, and unless the Intercessor, who is at God's right hand, presents and purifies all by His righteousness, it is not acceptable to God." (1SM 344)
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: StewartC]
#123491
02/21/10 05:39 PM
02/21/10 05:39 PM
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Daryl, do you think the passages posted above imply purity and holiness is tainted with sin? And, do you believe Ellen said our prayers and praise and penitent confessions are tainted with sin? That is, do you think she used the word "sin"? And, if so, do you think she meant we are guilty of sinning when purity and holiness flow back to God?
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: StewartC]
#123494
02/21/10 06:21 PM
02/21/10 06:21 PM
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1Jn 3:7-8
"... let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous... [and] for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the Devil [in us]."
We are called to righteousness, and we are called to holiness (be ye holy for I am holy, etc.), and I do not think we should deceive ourselves on these points -- the righteousness and the holiness that we are called to, is pure righteousness and pure holiness. We are to be righteous "even as He is righteous", and holy, even as He is holy.
It is a high calling, but no Christian man or woman will ever claim [this side of heaven] that they have "attained".
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: StewartC]
#123501
02/21/10 11:55 PM
02/21/10 11:55 PM
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Stewart, well said. Amen! The work of Jesus in and through us is just as holy and righteous as His work for us. "Righteousness and true holiness." Those who believe it is tainted with sin amaze me. The idea that we must repent of the holiness and righteousness Jesus experiences in and through us is troubling.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123508
02/22/10 01:26 AM
02/22/10 01:26 AM
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I must confess that I do not know exactly what kind of "healing" takes place in heaven, when Jesus leads the Redeemed to the tree of life. (I believe the context applies to a literal, future event, but again, I don't know, this may not be relevant to the subject at hand.)
"I then saw Jesus leading His people to the tree of life, and again we heard His lovely voice, richer than any music that ever fell on mortal ear, saying, "The leaves of this tree are for the healing of the nations. Eat ye all of it." (EW 289)
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: StewartC]
#123528
02/22/10 06:17 PM
02/22/10 06:17 PM
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The healing cannot involve healing from sinning. It might have to do with healing hearts saddened by the loss of loved ones in the lake of fire. Like you, I don't know for sure. The following passages describe the before and after contrast as it pertains to believers who experience true, genuine conversion: Yes, but your motives were so defiled by selfishness that the deed was not acceptable in the sight of the Lord. In all that you did, self was brought prominently to view.--Ms 53, 1906. {LDE 219.2}
It is the motive that gives character to our acts, stamping them with ignominy or with high moral worth.--DA 615 (1898). {LDE 219.3}
By the power of the Holy Spirit the moral image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ. {LDE 183.2}
The Holy Spirit seeks to abide in each soul. If it is welcomed as an honored guest, those who receive it will be made complete in Christ. The good work begun will be finished; the holy thoughts, heavenly affections, and Christlike actions will take the place of impure thoughts, perverse sentiments, and rebellious acts.--CH 561 (1896). {LDE 187.2}
True conversion is a change from selfishness to sanctified affection for God and for one another.--1SM 114, 115 (1901). {LDE 191.2}
I saw that none could share the "refreshing" unless they obtain the victory over every besetment, over pride, selfishness, love of the world, and over every wrong word and action. {LDE 192.2}
It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost.--5T 214 (1882). {LDE 192.3} There are some, however, who believe people that experience true, genuine conversion actually continue to experience sin tainted purity and holiness. They seem to think everything such believers do is corrupted and contaminated with selfishness and sin. But the quotes above make it clear the opposite is true.
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#123709
02/28/10 02:01 PM
02/28/10 02:01 PM
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Another text somewhat related to this subject which was in the EGW comments for this past week's SS lesson:
Many feel that their faults of character make it impossible for them to meet the standard that Christ has erected, but all that such ones have to do is to humble themselves at every step under the mighty hand of God. Christ does not estimate the man by the amount of work he does, but by the spirit in which the work is performed. {HP 23.4}
When He sees men lifting the burdens, trying to carry them in lowliness of mind, with distrust of self and with reliance upon Him, He adds to their work His perfection and sufficiency, and it is accepted of the Father. We are accepted in the Beloved. The sinner's defects are covered by the perfection and fullness of the Lord our Righteousness. Those who with sincere will, with contrite heart, are putting forth humble efforts to live up to the requirements of God, are looked upon by the Father with pitying, tender love; He regards such as obedient children, and the righteousness of Christ is imputed unto them. {HP 23.5}
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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true?
[Re: Rosangela]
#123723
02/28/10 08:15 PM
02/28/10 08:15 PM
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Rosangela, yes, that is a beautiful insight and statement. However, I get the impression you believe it proves everything converted, born-again believers do is stained with sin. Or, am I misunderstanding your point? If not, what is it about the quote you posted above that makes you think Ellen means everything such believers do is stained with sin and unacceptable to God?
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