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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: vastergotland]
#124667
04/10/10 12:54 PM
04/10/10 12:54 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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JCS,
The first chapter of Genesis spells out in no uncertain terms the existence of matter before "Creation Week." Let's take a closer look.
Genesis 1:1 -- Most scholars believe this is a summary statement for the passage to follow. It gives us the overview before it happens. The "beginning" it speaks of most probably is an allusion to all seven days of Creation. It is possible, however, for it to also refer to the elements of earth itself, in which case the introduction is continued in the next verse. Either of these views is possible, reasonable, and acceptable in my book.
In verse 2, however, we have some statements regarding the existence of both depth (dimension, right?) and water. This is very definitely an introduction to the state of the world before God began making something of it. Naturally, God is the source of all creation, and even the water present before He began had been created by Him--we simply are not told when. Jesus created everything. The waters did not exist before Him. But when was Jesus created? Never? Ok....since Jesus has always been, that leaves a significant amount of time in which the waters may have been created prior to Creation Week.
In verse 3, God begins Creation Week by saying "Let there be light." While that is the only thing created during that first day, take note of something else...evenings and mornings. We are told that with the mere introduction of light, we already have both evening and morning. This is highly significant.
Consider the fable (Aesop's?) of the sun and the cave. Each invites the other to experience his realm. But when the sun goes into the cave to see what darkness was like, there was no darkness in the cave, since the sun's light had filled it. Light pervades and goes everywhere.
If this earth were but "empty space" on the first day of creation, there could be no such thing as evening and morning only "mornings." The light would invade all the available space and leave no darkness at all. Yet God calls the darkness "Night!" The darkness could only exist in a shadow. Shadows do not exist in a void of empty space which has just been lit.
Day 2 could never have begun with darkness had there not already been something here. There is no light in the Universe that flashes on/off to make our days and nights. It is only by rotation of the earth that these periods of light and darkness exist, while the light itself is steady, directional, and constant.
In fact, every day of creation week is defined in the same way. This points decidedly to the fact that there was a rotating orb of mass here already. According to verse 2, that mass included water.
God never needed to create water or land during Creation Week. He only needed to give them defined boundaries of separation into "Earth" (dry land) and "Sea."
God says "Let the waters be gathered together" instead of saying "Let there be water!" God also says "let the dry land appear" instead of saying "let there be land!" Why "dry?" There can be only one reason for this adjective. It was previously wet (hidden under the water, and therefore not visible, which is why God causes it to appear above the water).
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#124673
04/10/10 09:19 PM
04/10/10 09:19 PM
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What happened on the 4th day interests me greatly in relation to this thread:
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years.
15 And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
16 And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars also.
17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Note especially verse 16 which says He made the sun, as the greater light, the moons, as the lesser light. He then says that He also made the stars. What is this verse telling us about the existence of the sun, the moon, and even the stars prior to the fourth day of creation?
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: Daryl]
#124675
04/11/10 02:14 AM
04/11/10 02:14 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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[content removed as requested by the poster]
Last edited by Rosangela; 04/28/10 08:40 PM.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124677
04/11/10 04:13 AM
04/11/10 04:13 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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This is Genesis chapter one from the Hebrew interlinear Bible: in·beginning he-created Elohim the·heavens and· the·earth and·the·earth she-became chaos and·vacancy and·darkness over surfaces-of abyss and·spirit-of Elohim mvibrating over surfaces-of the·waters and·he-is-saying Elohim he-shall-become light and·he-is-becoming light and·he-is-seeing Elohim the·light that good and·he-is-cseparating Elohim between the·light and·between the·darkness and·he-is-calling Elohim to·the·light day and·to·the·darkness he-calls night and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day one
and·he-is-saying Elohim he-shall-become atmosphere in·midst-of the·waters and·he-shall-become cseparating between waters to·waters and·he-is-makingdo Elohim » the·atmosphere and·he-is-cseparating between the·waters which from·under to·the·atmosphere and·between the·waters which from·on to·the·atmosphere and·he-is-becoming so and·he-is-calling Elohim to·the·atmosphere heavens and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day second
and·he-is-saying Elohim they-shall-be-flown-together the·waters from·under the·heavens to placeri one and·she-shall-be-seen the·dry and·he-is-becoming so and·he-is-calling Elohim to·the·dry land and·to·confluence-of the·waters he-called seas and·he-is-seeing Elohim that good and·he-is-saying Elohim she-shall-cause-to-vegetate the·land vegetation herbage csowing seed tree-of fruit makingdo fruit to·species-of·him which seed-of·him in·him on the·land and·he-is-becoming so and·she-is-cbringing-forth the·land vegetation herbage csowing seed to·species-of·him and·tree makingdo fruit which seed-of·him in·him to·species-of·him and·he-is-seeing Elohim that good and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day third
and·he-is-saying Elohim he-shall-become luminaries in·atmosphere-of the·heavens to·to-cseparate-of between the·day and· between the·night and·they-become for·signs and·for·appointments and·for·days and·years and·they-become for·luminaries
in·atmosphere-of the·heavens to·to-cgive-light-of on the·earth and·he-is-becoming so and·he-is-makingdo Elohim two-of the·luminaries the·great-ones the·luminary the·great to·ruling-of the·day and· the·luminary the·small to·ruling-of the·night
and· the·stars and·he-is-giving ·them Elohim in·atmosphere-of the·heavens to·to-cgive-light-of on the·earth and·to·to-rule-of in·the·day and·in·the·night and·to·to-cseparate-of between the·light and·between the·darkness and·he-is-seeing Elohim
that good and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day fourth
and·he-is-saying Elohim they-shall-roam the·waters roamer-of soul living and·flyer he-shall-mfly over the·earth on faces-of
atmosphere-of the·heavens and·he-is-creating Elohim the·monsters the·great-ones and· every-of soul the·living the·moving
which they-roam the·waters to·species-of·them and· every-of flyer-of wing to·species-of·him and·he-is-seeing Elohim that
good and·he-is-mblessing ·them Elohim to·to-say-of be-fruitful-you(p) ! and·increase-you(p) ! and·fill-you(p) ! the·waters
in·the·seas and·the·flyer he-shall-increase in·the·earth and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day fifth
and·he-is-saying Elohim she-shall-cbring-forth the·earth soul living to·species-of·her beast and·moving-animal and·animal-of·him land to·species-of·her and·he-is-becoming so and·he-is-makingdo Elohim animal-of the·land to·species-of·her and· the·beast to·species-of·her and· every-of moving-animal-of the·ground to·species-of·him and·he-is-seeing Elohim that good
and·he-is-saying Elohim we-shall-makedo human in·image-of·us as·likeness-of·us and·they-shall-sway in·fish-of the·sea and·in·flyer-of the·heavens and·in·the·beast and·in·all-of the·earth and·in·every-of the·moving-animal the·one-moving on the·land and·he-is-creating Elohim the·human in·image-of·him in·image-of Elohim he-created ·him male and·female he-created ·them and·he-is-mblessing ·them Elohim and·he-is-saying to·them Elohim be-fruitful-you(p) ! and·increase-you(p) ! and·fill-you(p) ! the·earth and·subdue-you(p)·her ! and·sway-you(p) ! in·fish-of the·sea and·in·flyer-of the·heavens and·in·every-of
animal the·one-moving on the·land and·he-is-saying Elohim behold ! I-give to·you(p) every-of herbage seeding seed which on
surfaces-of all-of the·earth and· every-of the·tree which in·him fruit-of tree seeding seed for·you(p) he-is-becoming for·food and·for·every-of animal-of the·land and·for·every-of flyer-of the·heavens and·for·every-of moving-animal on the·land
which in·him soul living every-of green herbage for·food and·he-is-becoming so and·he-is-seeing Elohim all-of which he-madedo and·behold ! good very and·he-is-becoming evening and·he-is-becoming morning day-of the·sixth Take a closer look at the fourth day and you'll realize that this "and the stars also" business wasn't originaly there. It was incorrectly added amidst translation. and·he-is-makingdo Elohim two-of the·luminaries the·great-ones the·luminary the·great to·ruling-of the·day and· the·luminary the·small to·ruling-of the·night
and· the·stars When one reads scripture in the original Hebrew, it's like reading a completely different book in many ways. I've now included you into a very small group of Christians in the world, now being aware of critical errors within English translations of the Holy Word. This verse actually states that the lesser light ruled the night and the stars, nothing more. God's act of creating the stars was in verse 14. Skeptical? Check out this link. http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdf
Last edited by JCS; 04/11/10 04:24 AM.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124680
04/11/10 03:43 PM
04/11/10 03:43 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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What is this verse telling us about the existence of the sun, the moon, and even the stars prior to the fourth day of creation? According to my understanding, the light created in verse 3 isn't the Sun, Moon, or even the stars. The only light in the heavens remaining is what comes from the light horizon. Verse 14 gives the first referance to the stars with possible inclusion to other objects. (The motions of the planets, comets, or asteroids cannot be used to determine seasons or years but possibly for days and signs.) In verse 16, God creates two more heavenly lights. The Sun is the greater light. The Moon may, or may not be what is the lesser light. (This is based on some elements found in the original Hebrew that I will not discuss here.) The greater light ruled the day, the lesser light ruled the night and the stars.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124688
04/12/10 04:17 PM
04/12/10 04:17 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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I think this "where and when" issue of the earth has run its course. (thankfully) This was really nothing but a distraction from the true focus of this tread and had no bearing on the FF model in any way, shape, or form. In an earlier list, I had composed a series of areas needing discussion. FF and red shift
FF and inflation
dimensional properties of light
the expanded energy equation and the tile method
finally, going through and explaining FF in clearer detail Unknown to many, there is actualy more than one form of red shift. One cause is from an object moving away from the observer. (the Doppler effect) This effect only reveals effects of motion away from the observer, not around. If the radial distance remains constant, no effect is observed. There is also what is called cosmological redshift of which represents the effects of expanding time space on light. To illustrate this one could draw a wave pattern on an uninflated ballon and then observe the change in the waves from blowing it up. A key point relating to cosmological redshift is the cosmological horizon. This marks an observable boundry in time of which coincides with the light horizon. In accordance with the FF model, this temporal distance (of 13.73 bill ly) represents the visible universe's total "resultant time" (being 13.73 bill years.) I should reflect on the point that resultant time isn't the actual period of time past. It's cyclical time multiplied by rotational time. The slide ruler balance between space and time in FF gears time's "observered" rate of passage at the cosmological horizon to zero. In effect, if we could see an object like an apple falling from a tree at that distance, it would appear to be floating in space as if frozen in time. I should carefully point out that this is a relativistic phenomenon, meaning, time isn't really flowing at that rate at the cosmological horizon. It only appears in this manner to us. This effect is in fact observable in astronomy but is of course disregarded as an odd effect possibly caused by dark matter or some temporary effect evidenced in the early stages of the universe's expansion.
Last edited by JCS; 04/12/10 07:11 PM.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124689
04/12/10 04:36 PM
04/12/10 04:36 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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A third form of redshift is gravitational. This is caused by the relativistic fact that time runs slower in gravitational fields. FF carefully intertwines the calculated effects of all three forms of red shift, leading to it's conclusion in regard to the true properies of time space in our universe.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124690
04/12/10 04:53 PM
04/12/10 04:53 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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In summary, the Doppler effect reveals the reativistic properties of time and space on light. Cosmological redshift evidences the temporal effects our universe's motion and expansion has. Finally, studying gravitational red shift enlightens one on how matter has hidden effects that alter light's temporal rate.
For some odd reason, astronomy endeavors to keep these proven effects separate as if only one of these properties can exist at one time.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124692
04/12/10 06:37 PM
04/12/10 06:37 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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Slipping back to some older discussions, I had forgotten that the concept of "curved time" and "curved space" wasn't even my own unique creation. On page 101-102 in Nick Herbert's book "Faster than Light" he explains how Einstein's GR REQUIRES curved space and curved time. Curved space-time is called "Riemannnian Geometry". My First Flash model mearly combines this confusing geometry with linear space-time defined by the internal unchanging space-time rate of light itself.
Of course, Riemannian Geometry is heavily discussed in common physics books like "Time Space Matter", and Wheeler's "Gravitation". The realization that there are two groups of physical laws (one dealing with linear motion, the other with angular) is even adressed in Gibson's Dictionary of Mathmatics.
After carefully analyzing the equations for things like speed, gravitational acceleration, moment of inertia, mass, angular frequency, centripetal force, angular displacement, and frame dragging (all within the context of Lorentz transformations) I discovered a secret relationship existing between linear and curved space-time physics.
Last edited by JCS; 04/12/10 06:39 PM.
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Re: A New Creationist Cosmological Model "The First Flash"
[Re: JCS]
#124693
04/12/10 06:59 PM
04/12/10 06:59 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
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These two forms of space-time composite together like values in the x and y dimensions (of geometry) multiply to define an area.
The two values would not always be equal, but when referancing visible light within our visible universe it is essential. If the value for curved space-time was greater the effect would equal what happens to light within black holes.
If a beam of light traveling toward Earth had a lesser value of curved space-time, the beam would never quite reach our eyes. (much like the light beyond the light horizon)
Linear and curved space-time must work together in concert or the light being effected cannot remain visible within the context of our universe.
Last edited by JCS; 04/12/10 07:02 PM.
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