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Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: vastergotland] #125072
04/29/10 09:05 PM
04/29/10 09:05 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
I think they were already covered by Christ's intercession.

I mean His intercession now, as High Priest.

Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: Rosangela] #125073
04/29/10 09:09 PM
04/29/10 09:09 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
I can se that comparison on the poisoned wine analogy, but that would not relate directly to the topic at hand.

I see things differently. If you have some drops of poison (selfishness) in your nature (wine), it contaminates everythging you do - even your manifestations of love and of the other fruits of the Spirit.
But the gifts of the Spirit come from the outside to us. From God. That would seem to be the problem, the claim that even God is unable to give us good gifts.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: Rosangela] #125074
04/29/10 09:29 PM
04/29/10 09:29 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
I think they were already covered by Christ's intercession.

I mean His intercession now, as High Priest.

What are you thinking about then?

Chapter 4: 14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Chapter 7: 23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Chapter 9: 15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Chapter 10: 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds." 17Then he adds:
"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more." 18And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin. 19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: vastergotland] #125083
04/30/10 02:10 AM
04/30/10 02:10 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
But the gifts of the Spirit come from the outside to us. From God. That would seem to be the problem, the claim that even God is unable to give us good gifts.

Yes, the gifts are good. But why then do you admit that your love is not 100% pure, without any trace of selfishness? Wasn't it God who gave you that love?

Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: vastergotland] #125084
04/30/10 02:20 AM
04/30/10 02:20 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think they were already covered by Christ's intercession.

I mean His intercession now, as High Priest.

What are you thinking about then?

I'm saying that Christ died for all our sins on the cross - both the conscious and the unconscious ones. And now He lives to make intercession for us - in real time, on the basis of a perfect, once-for-all sacrifice - made in the past, but whose efficacy remains for ever.

Heb. 7:25 (which you quoted): Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: Rosangela] #125317
05/11/10 02:51 PM
05/11/10 02:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
However, James and John's attempt to have a higher place than the other disciples was motivated by selfishness and was sinful.

James and John's requested was motivated by two things: 1) their love for Christ and desire to be as near to Him as possible; and 2) their desire to have a higher place than the other disciples. Do you see two motivations for a single act? That's precisely what I'm saying: our love may be unconsciously mixed with selfishness. That's why it's defiled by the earthliness of its human channel. God's Spirit does not produce selfishness, of course. He produces love. But since in us there is still traces of selfishness, this love is mixed with selfishness, and that's why it needs to be purified by Christ's blood. What exactly do you disagree with?

It sounds like you're suggesting sin and righteousness are blended in the believer. I believe sin is sin and righteousness is righteousness. What you're saying makes it sound like the righteous results of abiding in Jesus is stained with sin.

Re: Some say our fruits of the Spirit are tainted with sin. Is it true? [Re: Mountain Man] #125323
05/11/10 09:12 PM
05/11/10 09:12 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike, the passage says,

"Jesus bears tenderly with them [James and John], not rebuking their selfishness in seeking preference above their brethren. He reads their hearts, He knows the depth of their attachment to Him. Their love is not a mere human affection; though defiled by the earthliness of its human channel, it is an outflowing from the fountain of His own redeeming love. He will not rebuke, but deepen and purify" (DA 548).

What, in your opinion, makes their love "defiled by the earthliness of its human channel"? To me it's clear that it is the "selfishness" mentioned in the previous sentence.

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