A: True righteousness and holiness are imputed, not duplicated.

M: The idea that born-again believers are incapable of obeying the Law of God echoes the accusations of Satan.

R: Mike, "obeying the law" means a perfect obedience during your whole existence, from the moment you are born to the moment you die. Our efforts to obey are imperfect, because we sin, but God considers them as real obedience because of Christ's merit. So we can say we obey the law. This is what the quote Arnold alluded to says. Do you disagree?

It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned. {SC 62.2}

More than this, Christ changes the heart. He abides in your heart by faith. You are to maintain this connection with Christ by faith and the continual surrender of your will to Him; and so long as you do this, He will work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. So you may say, "The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20. So Jesus said to His disciples, "It is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." Matthew 10:20. Then with Christ working in you, you will manifest the same spirit and do the same good works --works of righteousness, obedience. {SC 62.3}

Can any of us say that we never sinned since being born again?

M: Yes. But being more acutely aware of my defective traits of character isn't the same thing as acting them out in sinful ways. Do you agree? If not, why not?

A: Of course it's not the same thing. You keep saying that as if anyone here believes otherwise. You are the only one here who ever brings it up. Here are some quotes to show that even true believers are defective:


A: You have seen all of these before, since I have quoted them to you before. But my question to you now is this: Is it a sin to have an imperfect character?

M: I don't understand how your question relates to my previous post. Please explain. Thank you.

A: I want to better understand what your idea of "righteousness and holiness" is. Your answer to my question above should help. You claim that all born-again believers are righteous and holy when it comes to keeping God's law. That doesn't sit well with what I have read in inspiration.


A: Note the similarity between the last part of that quote and my earlier quotes. Then note that this is talking about one who has been "reconciled to God through the blood of Christ."

The gospel of good news was not to be interpreted as allowing men to live in continued rebellion against God by transgressing His just and holy law. Why cannot those who claim to understand the Scriptures, see that God's requirement under grace is just the same He made in Eden-- perfect obedience to His law. In the judgment, God will ask those who profess to be Christians, Why did you claim to believe in My Son, and continue to transgress My law? Who required this at your hands--to trample upon My rules of righteousness? "Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." The gospel of the New Testament is not the Old Testament standard lowered to meet the sinner and save him in his sins. God requires of all His subjects obedience, entire obedience to all His commandments. He demands now as ever perfect righteousness as the only title to heaven. Christ is our hope and our refuge. His righteousness is imputed only to the obedient. Let us accept it through faith, that the Father shall find in us no sin. But those who have trampled on the holy law will have no right to claim that righteousness. O that we might view the immensity of the plan of salvation as obedient children to all God's requirements, believing that we have peace with God through Jesus Christ, our atoning sacrifice (RH Sept. 21, 1886)! {6BC 1072.8}

God requires at this time just what He required of the holy pair in Eden, perfect obedience to His requirements. His law remains the same in all ages. The great standard of righteousness presented in the Old Testament is not lowered in the New. It is not the work of the gospel to weaken the claims of God's holy law, but to bring men up where they can keep its precepts. {6BC 1073.1}

The faith in Christ which saves the soul is not what it is represented to be by many. "Believe, believe," is their cry; "only believe in Christ, and you will be saved. It is all you have to do." While true faith trusts wholly in Christ for salvation, it will lead to perfect conformity to the law of God. Faith is manifested by works. And the apostle John declares, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar" (RH Oct. 5, 1886). {6BC 1073.2}

Why would they say anything at all about it one way or the other? Did Jesus promise, "Whosoever abideth in him will continue to sin and repent"? Or, did He specifically say, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"?

Jesus Himself had a "defective character" in the sense He bore in His sinful flesh the sins of the entire world.

D: Can any of us say that we never sinned since being born again?

M: Why would they say anything at all about it one way or the other? Did Jesus promise, "Whosoever abideth in him will continue to sin and repent"? Or, did He specifically say, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not"?

D: In theory we can, but in reality we can't?

Bearing the sins of the entire world didn't give Christ a "defective character". His own character remained spotless, pure, and sinless.

M: Jesus Himself had a "defective character" in the sense He bore in His sinful flesh the sins of the entire world.

R: He bore our sins and was condemned by them. How, then, did you come to the following conclusion: "Obviously, therefore, having defective traits of character does not cause guilt or condemnation"?