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Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152893
06/05/13 11:16 AM
06/05/13 11:16 AM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
It might help some of the participants in this discussion to be faithful in studying the present Sabbath School lessons which give a vivid picture of how the minor prophets deal with the wrath of God and the sin problem. Admittedly, this is no food for infants.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Johann] #152894
06/05/13 11:20 AM
06/05/13 11:20 AM
Johann  Offline
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Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
What a hateful god some are serving? What pleasures are found in "his" heaven?

Last edited by Johann; 06/05/13 11:22 AM.

"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Johann] #152902
06/05/13 08:32 PM
06/05/13 08:32 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Originally Posted By: Johann
What a hateful god some are serving? What pleasures are found in "his" heaven?
The Inquisition?

Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: kland] #152906
06/05/13 11:19 PM
06/05/13 11:19 PM
Johann  Offline
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3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Johann
What a hateful god some are serving? What pleasures are found in "his" heaven?
The Inquisition?


Looking for the power of the inquisitor?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: APL] #152909
06/06/13 01:31 AM
06/06/13 01:31 AM
Norman  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 35
Monticello GA. US
That's a very interesting translation.


No one can make you upset unless you choose to be, otherwise you're a slave to all and everything that makes me mad
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152915
06/06/13 01:48 AM
06/06/13 01:48 AM
Norman  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 35
Monticello GA. US
Hi Green,

I agree with what you say. My point is that there's a difference between bruise and execute. I believe that it's not one or the other but both types of punishment. There are times when God does punish and there are times when God withdraws His protection from those who refuse His protection from the roaring lion.

Here's a wonderful statement that clears up the subject for me, it really makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. Such pardon would show the abandonment of the principles of righteousness, which are the very foundation of the government of God. It would fill the unfallen universe with consternation. God has faithfully pointed out the results of sin, and if these warnings were not true, how could we be sure that His promises would be fulfilled? That so-called benevolence which would set aside justice is not benevolence but weakness. – {PP 522.2}


Norman


No one can make you upset unless you choose to be, otherwise you're a slave to all and everything that makes me mad
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Norman] #152917
06/06/13 02:00 AM
06/06/13 02:00 AM
Norman  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 35
Monticello GA. US
This would go along with the last quote.

Quote:
Judgment of Wicked—During the thousand years between the first and the second resurrection the judgment of the wicked takes place. The apostle Paul points to this judgment as an event that follows the second advent. “Judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts.” 1 Corinthians 4:5. {Hvn 119.2}
Daniel declares that when the Ancient of Days came, “judgment was given to the saints of the Most High.” Daniel 7:22. {Hvn 119.3}
At this time the righteous reign as kings and priests unto God. John in the Revelation says: “I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.” “They shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4, 6. {Hvn 119.4}

It is at this time that, as foretold by Paul, “the saints shall judge the world.” 1 Corinthians 6:2. In union with Christ they judge the wicked, comparing their acts with the statute book, the Bible, and deciding every case according to the deeds done in the body. Then the portion which the wicked must suffer is meted out, according to their works; and it is recorded against their names in the book of death. {Hvn 119.5}

Satan also and evil angels are judged by Christ and His people.—The Great Controversy, 660, 661. {Hvn 120.1}


Quote:
Satan’s Punishment Commensurate With His Guilt—Satan also and his angels were judged by Jesus and the saints. Satan’s punishment was to be far greater than that of those whom he had deceived. His suffering would so far exceed theirs as to bear no comparison with it. After all those whom he had deceived had perished, Satan was still to live and suffer on much longer.—Early Writings, 291. {Hvn 120.2


No one can make you upset unless you choose to be, otherwise you're a slave to all and everything that makes me mad
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Norman] #152921
06/06/13 02:42 AM
06/06/13 02:42 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Norman
Hi Green,

I agree with what you say. My point is that there's a difference between bruise and execute. I believe that it's not one or the other but both types of punishment. There are times when God does punish and there are times when God withdraws His protection from those who refuse His protection from the roaring lion.

Here's a wonderful statement that clears up the subject for me, it really makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. Such pardon would show the abandonment of the principles of righteousness, which are the very foundation of the government of God. It would fill the unfallen universe with consternation. God has faithfully pointed out the results of sin, and if these warnings were not true, how could we be sure that His promises would be fulfilled? That so-called benevolence which would set aside justice is not benevolence but weakness. – {PP 522.2}


Norman

Amen. Well said. Praise the Lord for Mrs. White's writings that shed ample light on these questions. Without her writings, we might be foundering in confusion on some of these points.

When I say "execute," perhaps I do not mean it in the modern sense of "capital punishment" so much as in the senses of doing justice, finishing the work, making an end of sin and sinners. Each sinner will receive his or her just punishments just as each one who is saved will receive his or her just rewards. God makes this clear in the book of Revelation among other places. "To every man as his work shall be" is a phrase which would also apply here.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152923
06/06/13 03:55 AM
06/06/13 03:55 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
The Book of Revelation - perhaps green, you should watch the course on Revelation that Sigve Tonstad is teaching. The lectures are online. You can find the first lecture HERE


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Does God Create Evil or Does God Permit Evil? [Re: APL] #152924
06/06/13 03:58 AM
06/06/13 03:58 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Doing justice = doing the right thing. Are you saying God does not use Capital Punishment? YOU have been saying all along that God does use Capital Punishment. YOU say He has to because sin certainly is not the cause of death. Doing the right thing is when God gives each man his freedom. Freedom to destroy themselves by indulging in sin. Sin pays it wage, death. God's wrath is when God gives up the sinner to let sin do what sin does, destroy and kill. Romans 1, James 1:15.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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