But there is no "sin" in animals and plants, or in their DNA. There is sin only in man, and in his mind.

Rosangela - - You do not understand... God's wrath is not like our wrath. His wrath is His withdrawal, the removal of Himself. Not to punish, but because He has been rejected. But once He is removed, then there is nothing to check the effects of sin, and those that have clung to their sin will feel the punishment of sin! I have repeatedly said that God is not against sinners, only to have Green pop in and say that Hitler needs to be punished much more than he has and that the resurrection of the wicked is primarily about punishment. I understand sin to be something real and physical. I'm not sure what you think sin is, or how it is that sin not only affects humans, but all life. I don't recall you ever answering the question of how sin causes all life to suffer together. Do you have an answer to that question? Yes, sin is transgression of the law. What law? And how is it transgressed?

SEE THIS

The only human who was "made to be sin" was Jesus.

So, animals, red in tooth and claw, they are not "sinful"?

So Jesus was sin, but we are not?

God did not have as great delight in their shedding the blood of beasts as in obedience to his commandments. The offerings were divinely appointed to remind sinful man that sin brought death, and that the blood of the innocent beast could atone for the guilt of the transgressor, by virtue of the great sacrifice yet to be offered. God required of his people obedience rather than sacrifice. All the riches of the earth were his. The cattle upon a thousand hills belonged to him. He did not require the spoil of a corrupt people, upon whom his curse rested, even to their utter extinction, to be presented to him to prefigure the holy Saviour, as a lamb without blemish. {4aSG 75.5}

The sins of the people were transferred in figure to the officiating priest, who was a mediator for the people. The priest could not himself become an offering for sin, and make an atonement with his life, for he was also a sinner. Therefore, instead of suffering death himself, he killed a lamb without blemish; the penalty of sin was transferred to the innocent beast, which thus became his immediate substitute, and typified the perfect offering of Jesus Christ. Through the blood of this victim, man looked forward by faith to the blood of Christ which would atone for the sins of the world. {1SM 230.2}

The cross teaches the lesson of self-sacrifice. As by faith men behold the royal Sufferer, the conviction comes to them that the sure result of sin is death. Let the believing soul stand beside the cross of Calvary, and with a heart swelling with grateful love, cry, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world!" Behold Him! Say it with heart and soul and voice. Induce the sinner to look. When his gaze is arrested, amazed at such wonderful condescension, he steps nearer, and learns of the Saviour the lesson all must learn,--the lesson of meekness and lowliness. The believing soul sees Jesus as He is, and beholding, is changed into His image. The experience of those who are truly converted testifies that God is the author of eternal salvation, and that the grace of Christ is wisdom and power. {RH, January 7, 1902 par. 11}

..."He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21. Christ crucified for our sins; Christ risen from the dead; Christ ascended on high as our intercessor--this is the science of salvation that we need to learn and to teach. This is to be the burden of our work. {CT 22.2}

No, APL, animals are not "sinful." However, my statement had nothing to do with animals. I said "human" and you thought of "animal." Interesting reasoning. Since you desire to speak of animals, let's look at them for a moment. Here's some facts:

Ellen White mentions sinful people (e.g. "sinful humanity" or "sinful man") in well over 250 quotes per the EGW CD.

Ellen White mentions sinful animals (e.g. "sinful beasts" or "sinful animals") ZERO times.

To the contrary, Mrs. White declares the animals to be "innocent." 

This earth has been cursed because of sin, and in these last days vermin of every kind will multiply. These pests must be killed, or they will annoy and torment and even kill us, and destroy the work of our hands and the fruit of our land. In places there are ants which entirely destroy the woodwork of houses. Should not these be destroyed? Fruit trees must be sprayed, that the insects which would spoil the fruit may be killed. God has given us a part to act, and this part we must act with faithfulness. Then we can leave the rest with the Lord. {2MR 178.3}

God has given no man the message, Kill not ant or flea or moth. Troublesome and harmful insects and reptiles we must guard against and destroy, to preserve ourselves and our possessions from harm. And even if we do our best to exterminate these pests, they will still multiply.--Ms 70, 1901, pp. 9, 10. Released 1961. {2MR 178.4}

...What a price has been paid for us! Behold the cross, and the Victim uplifted upon it. Look at those hands, pierced with the cruel nails. Look at His feet, fastened with spikes to the tree. Christ bore our sins in His own body. That suffering, that agony, is the price of your redemption. The word of command was given: "Deliver them from going down to perish eternally. I have found a ransom." {6T 479.2}

"The Editor's Private Corner. Compassed with Infirmity" The Present Truth 19, 6.

E. J. Waggoner

"As a student of the Lord's word, and very desirous to ascertain the truth upon all essential points of Christian faith, I should be glad of your reasons for applying Hebrews 5:2 to our Saviour. I have always understood the text to teach that the Jewish priest, while called of God to offer an offering for sins on behalf of the worshippers, had likewise to offer for himself a similar offering; and the words in Hebrews 5:3, 'by reason hereof he ought' are based upon the fact stated in Hebrews 5:2, that like the ones he ministers for, he himself is compassed with infirmity (imperfection). Our High Priest did not in any way partake of the fallen human nature, like the Jewish priests. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, but not in sinful flesh, or flesh full of sins. My real thought is, 'that the Word (Logos) was made flesh' before sin entered, or otherwise how could He have been a ransom price for Adam, and the race condemned in him?" {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.1}

Your question opens up the heart of the Gospel; but although many pages would not suffice to give an exhaustive statement, a very little consideration of the word will make it plain. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.2}

If we take up the last part of your question first, we shall get at it in the most logical manner. Your "real thought" that the Word was made flesh before sin entered, is correct; for even as it was by the Word of the Lord that the heavens were made, so it was by that same Word, that man was brought into being. The Word that was made flesh, is the word that was in the beginning with God, and was God, without which not one thing was made. The perfect man is the man who shares the fulness which is bestowed freely upon all without God man is incomplete; it takes God in man to make a whole man. Everybody will see this who recognises the identity of the words, wholeness, and holiness. A holy man is simply a whole man, a man who is made complete in Christ. Adam was a complete, perfect man; because, in him the Word of life that was from the beginning, was fully manifested. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.3}

But Adam fell, he deliberately cast off his allegiance to God; yet God did not forsake him, the Word still dwelt among men, although not in its fulness of grace and truth, because held down in unrighteousness. Thus it is that the word of truth is the Gospel of our salvation. You ask how the Word could have been a ransom price for Adam and the race condemned in him, if is were not made flesh before sin entered? I ask how it could have been a ransom for the race if it had not remained among men after sin entered? The love of God toward men is shown in that He has not forsaken us in our fallen condition. If it were not so, we should not be alive to tell the tale. He is our life. He who would raise fallen man, must come where he is. He is made what we are, in order that we may be made what He is. He comes into us, suffering the death which He did not deserve, in order that we may enjoy the life that we did not deserve. And this He does, not arbitrarily, but because from the very fact of our existence He is one with us. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.4}

Your statement that our High Priest did not in any way partake of the fallen human nature, like the Jewish priest, is an unsupported assertion, and contrary to the Scripture. Read the words of the Lord to Moses: "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deuteronomy 18:18. So we read the words of the Lord in Psalms 89:19; "I have laid help upon One that is mighty; I have exalted One chosen out of the people." Now mark well, this does not say that Jesus was sinful. His everlasting glory is, that from the height of heaven He stooped and came down and took upon Himself man's sinfulness, and yet remained sinless. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.5}

Read the testimony in Isaiah 53:4; Isaiah 53:6 : "He hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows:" or, as quoted in Matthew 8:17, "Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses." "The Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all," or, as given in the margin, "has made the iniquity of us all to meet on Him." This is not a mere figure of speech; it is a statement of an actual fact, a reality. He is the Lamb of God who bears the sin of the world. John 1:29 (margin). The sin of the world is the sin that is common in the world. He had it all on Him in fullest measure, yet never once did He yield to it in the slightest degree. This is our hope, our victory; it is our only hope, and the only basis on which we can have any hope. For if there were a gulf between Him and us, if He were at a distance from us, if He occupied the "I-am-holier-than-thou" position, standing off in faith that knows nothing of our weakness, and the conflicts; that we have to wage, there would be no hope for us. We should have laid upon us the impossible task of lifting ourselves up to His level, before we could be united in Him, but it is not so. He that ascended up far above all heavens, is the One who first descended into the lower parts of the earth. He went down to the depths to which man had fallen, in order that man may be raised to the height of His glorious righteousness. And because this marvel of righteousness was manifested in Jesus of Nazareth, a man born of woman, born of the seed of Abraham according to the flesh, every man born of woman may, if he believes, have that same perfect righteousness, perfect deliverance from sin. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.6}

I know the play that is commonly made upon the word "likeness," in the text which says that, "Christ was made in the likeness of sinful flesh." I do not mean to indicate by the word play, that there is any intentional trifling with the Scripture. But a reference to the same word in Romans 5:14 will help us to see that it does not mean something like, yet not like. Thus in the text just referred to we read that "death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the similitude [likeness] of Adam's transgression." This, it is evident, is not intended to convey the idea, that the sin of Adam is different from the sin of the rest of mankind, for we all are sharers in his sin. Still more evident is this in the sixth of Romans, where we read "If we have been planted together in the likeness of His death; we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection." Comparing this with the third verse, which says that "we are baptized into His death," with the sixth verse, which says that "our old man is crucified with Him," and with the eighth verse which says that "we are dead with Christ," we see that this expression "in the likeness of His death," means identity. We share His death, that we may share His life. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.7}

Still more plainly does this appear from the second chapter of Hebrews, verses eleven and fourteen. "Both He that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one, for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren." "Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood He also Himself likewise took part of the same." Nothing could be more emphatic than this: He partakes of the same flesh and blood that the children have, whom He came to save. He took upon Him the seed of Abraham. He is

the Seed of the woman, and in order to make this central truth of the Gospel emphatic, and to keep it ever before the minds of mankind, He always spoke of Himself as the Son of man. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 84.8}

If there were a difference between the nature of Christ, and that of man, that which we read in Hebrews 5:7, would be but a farce. "In the days of His flesh, He offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save Him from death." He did not do this for nothing: He did not do this merely as an example to show us what we ought to do. But He did it through the eternal Spirit, that by that same Spirit He might be the Author of eternal salvation to all that trust Him. And how about Him at the present time? He is our High Priest in the heavenly places at the right hand of God, yet He is on earth in our flesh, even in our sinful flesh. "For the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, say not in thine heart, who shall ascend into heaven? (that is to bring up Christ again from the dead). But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart; that is, the Word of faith which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:6-9. If He were not still on earth (by the Spirit of course) among us, dwelling in us, there would be no hope of salvation to any human being; but our hope, our only hops, our all sufficiency hope, is this, that every weakness which would cause us to stumble and fall is upon Him, and if we but see and confess this continually, allowing Him to do that for which He is in the flesh, He is abundantly able to keep us from falling. Although in the heavens, He is still compassed with infirmity, even with our infirmity. Our great High Priest that is passed into the heavens is still touched with the feeling of our infirmity. This is why we can come with boldness to the throne of grace, assured that we shall find mercy and grace to help in time of need. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 85.1}

There seems to be the idea that it is derogatory to Christ's character, to say that He has come in sinful flesh. I have heard a professed Christian express the same thing to me, saying that the idea that Christ was born of woman was repugnant to him; he felt that it was debasing to Christ. What a false conception! It is in the highest degree honourable to Him that He can be compassed with infirmity, yet not fall, that He can have all the sin of the world upon Him, yet not be defiled. It is this that makes Him the gloriously complete Saviour; this will be His glory to all eternity. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 85.2}

Aside from all this, my reason for applying Hebrews 5:2 to Christ, is that He is the subject of the discourse. That which is stated in that verse is said to apply to every high priest taken from among men, who is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, and this to emphatically true of Christ. All this, however, will receive fuller consideration, as we proceed in our study of Hebrews in the Bible class. {February 5, 1903 EJW, PTUK 85.3}

No, APL, animals are not "sinful."

As leprosy was a type of the worst sins, the ceremony for the cleansing of the leper embraced more than any other offering. The priest who had examined the leper and pronounced him unclean, was the only one that could pronounce him clean. The priest went outside the camp and examined the leper, and if the leprosy was healed, then the healed man was to bring "two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop," unto the priest. One of the birds was killed in an earthen vessel held over running water; then the living bird, the scarlet, and the cedar were all dipped in the blood. The priest sprinkled the blood seven times upon the one who was to be cleansed, and pronounced him clean. Lev_14:4-7 {CIS 163.3}
Leprosy is a very contageous disease; everything the leper touches is contaminated. Sin also is a dreadful disease, and the earth, air, and water are all cursed by the sins of humanity, and must be cleansed by the same blood which cleanses man. Therefore, after the leper was pronounced clean, the live bird, its feathers scarlet with the blood, was let loose to fly through the air. The blood was not only sprinkled on the person who had been unclean, but it was thus carried through the air that was laden with germs of disease and sin, Jer_9:21 in type of the blood of Christ which will give a new heaven-a new atmosphere-to this sin-cursed earth. {CIS 163.4}
Before man sinned, there was no decaying vegetation; the lovely trees were not destroyed by insect pests, but all was free from the curse. Nothing but the blood of Christ can restore vegetation to its Eden beauty. In type of this regenerating power, a piece of cedar, the giant of the forest, and of hyssop, the small plant "that springeth out of the wall," 1Ki_4:33 were dipped in the blood. These were chosen to represent the two extremes in vegetation, thus embracing all. {CIS 164.1}
The animal life also is cursed by sin, but through the redeeming power of the blood of Christ the time will come when "the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf, and the young lion, and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them." Isa_11:6 {CIS 164.2}
The scarlet wool dipped in the blood represented the animal kingdom. Heb_9:19 The blood of the bird was placed in an earthen dish held over running water. Thus we see that in the cleansing of the leper the blood came in direct contact not only with the leper, but with all else cursed by sin; viz., earth, air, water, vegetation, and the animal kingdom. {CIS 164.3}
These wonderful types were but compacted prophecies of the far more wonderful Antitype. When Christ knelt in agony upon the cold ground of the garden of Gethsemane, the great drops of blood fell down from His face to the ground. Luk_22:44 Four thousand years before, when Cain slew his brother, the earth had first felt the touch of human blood, which fell as a withering curse, blighting the fruitfulness of the land. Gen_4:11-12 Many times since has the bosom of the earth not only been spotted with the blood of man, but rivers of blood have deluged the ground as armed hosts of human beings, led on by Satan, have slaughtered one another. Every drop of this blood has added to the curse. Isa_24:5-6 But how different the effect of the blood of the blessed Saviour! In it was healing, cleansing power. Num_35:33 {CIS 164.4}
The curse of sin rests heavily upon the atmosphere, which is so laden with disease germs that "death is come up into our windows and is entered into our palaces, to cut off the children from without, and the young men from the streets." In the type the blood of the offering dripped from the bird as it flew through the air. From the great antitypical Offering, as He hung on Calvary, the precious, healing blood dripped from His wounded hands and feet through the air, and fell upon the rocks beneath. The types of the old Levitical service were not a meaningless ceremony, but a prophecy of the great Antitype. {CIS 165.1}
From the earliest times, the water has been affected by the curse of sin. Exo_15:23 The bird killed over the running water was a type of the death of Christ, which would remove the curse of sin forever from the waters of the earth. The blood of Christ came in direct contact with water; when the soldier thrust the cruel spear into the side of the Saviour, "forthwith came thereout blood and water;" Joh_19:34 not a mixture of blood and water, but blood and water, two copious streams. {CIS 165.2}
"The wonderful symbol of the living bird dipped in the blood of the slain bird, and then set free to its joyous life, is to us the symbol of the atonement. There were death and life blended, presenting to the searcher of truth the hidden treasure, the union of the pardoning blood with the resurrection and life of our Redeemer. {CIS 165.3}
The bird was slain over living water; that flowing stream was a symbol of the ever flowing, ever cleansing efficacy of the blood of Christ." {CIS 166.1}
The cross upon which the Saviour hung, and which was stained with His precious blood, was made of the trees of the forest; while a small reed of hyssop supported the sponge that was dipped in vinegar and given Ilim to quench His thirst. {CIS 166.2}
As the Saviour hung upon the cross, He listened for some word or token from humanity that would indicate that His sacrifice was appreciated; but only jeers, taunts, and curses were borne to His ears from the surging mass below. Even one of the thieves by His side joined in the railing; but the other thief reproached him, and turning to Jesus said, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom." The reply of Jesus, "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise;" Luk_23:39-43 contained an assurance of pardon. Even while the cleansing blood of Christ was flowing from His veins, the thief rejoiced in its power to cleanse from sin. He who was thought by His enemies to be conquered, died a mighty Conqueror, and the thief experienced the fulfilment of the promise, "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." Isa_1:18 {CIS 166.3}
There was a significance in the color of the wool dipped in the blood of the typical offering. It is almost impossible to remove scarlet stains, but "though your sins be as scarlet," the blood of Christ can make them "white as snow." You may be condemned and counted as an outcast by every one on earth: but if you look to the Saviour and claim His cleansing power, He will wash away your sins, and put joy and rejoicing in your heart. {CIS 166.4}
In the typical service, notwithstanding the fact that when the one to be cleansed from leprosy was sprinkled with the blood, he was pronounced clean, yet there was something more for him to do. On the eighth day after he was pronounced clean, he was to appear before the priest with two lambs, a meat-offering, and a log of oil. The priest presented the man to be cleansed at the door of the tabernacle, and waved one of the lambs and the log of oil before the Lord. He then slew the lamb, and took some of the blood and put it upon "the tip of the right car" of him that was to be cleansed, "and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot," Lev_14:10-14 thus consecrating his ears to hear only those things that would tend to keep him clean, his hands to the service of God, and his feet to travel only in the way of the Lord's commandments, {CIS 166.5}
Then the priest took the log of oil, and after sprinkling a portion of it before the Lord, he put some of it "upon the tip of the right ear" of him that was to be cleansed, also "upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot," and then anointed his head with the remainder of the oil. Lev_14:15-18 {CIS 167.1}
This service was not an empty form, but a type of a blessed antitype, which is fulfilled in every Christian who presents himself for service before the Lord, after the Lord forgives his sins and pronounces him clean. Of Mary, Jesus said, "Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little." Luk_7:47 The leper cleansed from that loathsome, living death, felt so thankful to God for freedom and cleansing that he consecrated his life to the Lord for service. Not only is the oil, an emblem of the Holy Spirit which prepares the Christian for service, touched to his car, hand, and foot, but it is poured upon his head, thus betokening a full surrender of the entire being to the service of His Master who has redeemed him. The books of heaven record the names of many who have fulfilled this beautiful antitype by surrendering their entire being to the service of their Redeemer. {CIS 167.2}