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Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: asygo] #161609
02/12/14 01:26 AM
02/12/14 01:26 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
God would not have forbidden it if it were safe.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #161610
02/12/14 02:20 AM
02/12/14 02:20 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: APL
God would not have forbidden it if it were safe.


Logic may not be your strong point, but Ellen White had it right.

"There was nothing poisonous in the fruit of the tree of knowledge itself, nothing that would cause death in partaking of it. The tree had been placed in the garden to test their loyalty to God." -- Ellen White.

It was God's prohibition that made the fruit unsafe to eat. The fruit was perfectly good fruit, and would not have caused death of itself. What caused death was their sin in disobeying God's command. The fruit had nothing physical to do with it.

I firmly believe that had the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil been an exact clone of the Tree of Life, with the very same kind of fruit, the very same chemistry, DNA, etc., God's prohibition of its fruit would have resulted in the very same consequences (death) if consumed.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: Green Cochoa] #161622
02/12/14 04:33 AM
02/12/14 04:33 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
You have interesting logic. God's prohibition did not "make" the fruit unsafe. You firmly believe that God made an arbitrary prohibition of the tree.

"Eve was told that there was nothing bad in the tree, that its fruit was of such a character as would give increased knowledge. Does not Satan come to us in just that way? Does he not present attractions, and try to make us believe that if we will pursue a certain course, contrary to the law of God, something will be gained by it? But after they had yielded to the temptations of Satan, Adam and Eve found that they had met with terrible loss, and so will everyone in our world who yields to the temptations of the enemy to indulge appetite, find that it is a fearful loss to them." - Ellen White


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #161624
02/12/14 04:39 AM
02/12/14 04:39 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
APL,

Here is the logic:

1) The fruit was harmless, in and of itself, as attested by Mrs. White.
2) Mrs. White is clear that the fruit had nothing in it to cause death.
3) Therefore, God's prohibition is what made it unsafe to eat.

Whereas God had commanded them not to eat of the fruit; and
whereas disobeying a command of God is sin; and
whereas the salary of sin is death, which is not "safe";
Therefore: God's command caused the act of eating the fruit to be unsafe.

It was the act of disobedience that was unsafe. The fruit was but an innocent bystander to the equation. The fruit itself could not cause death.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: APL] #161628
02/12/14 05:35 AM
02/12/14 05:35 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,663
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
You have interesting logic. God's prohibition did not "make" the fruit unsafe. You firmly believe that God made an arbitrary prohibition of the tree.

"Eve was told that there was nothing bad in the tree, that its fruit was of such a character as would give increased knowledge. Does not Satan come to us in just that way? Does he not present attractions, and try to make us believe that if we will pursue a certain course, contrary to the law of God, something will be gained by it? But after they had yielded to the temptations of Satan, Adam and Eve found that they had met with terrible loss, and so will everyone in our world who yields to the temptations of the enemy to indulge appetite, find that it is a fearful loss to them." - Ellen White


It was an issue of trust and loyalty.

Would they trust God, who had given them everything, including life itself, or would they trust the antagonist who had given them nothing?

Those who see sin as only a "natural" cause and effect thing, miss the higher spiritual decision of trust and faith and loyalty.

That was the issue --
Would they trust God and be loyal to Him,
or would they trust satan and follow his suggestions.
Who would they choose?
And yes, when they chose satan who could give them only transitory pleasures followed by misery, instead of God Who could give them eternal joy and life, they suffered GREAT LOSS.

Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: dedication] #161629
02/12/14 05:44 AM
02/12/14 05:44 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL
You have interesting logic. God's prohibition did not "make" the fruit unsafe. You firmly believe that God made an arbitrary prohibition of the tree.

"Eve was told that there was nothing bad in the tree, that its fruit was of such a character as would give increased knowledge. Does not Satan come to us in just that way? Does he not present attractions, and try to make us believe that if we will pursue a certain course, contrary to the law of God, something will be gained by it? But after they had yielded to the temptations of Satan, Adam and Eve found that they had met with terrible loss, and so will everyone in our world who yields to the temptations of the enemy to indulge appetite, find that it is a fearful loss to them." - Ellen White


It was an issue of trust and loyalty.

Would they trust God, who had given them everything, including life itself, or would they trust the antagonist who had given them nothing?

Those who see sin as only a "natural" cause and effect thing, miss the higher spiritual decision of trust and faith and loyalty.

That was the issue --
Would they trust God and be loyal to Him,
or would they trust satan and follow his suggestions.
Who would they choose?
And yes, when they chose satan who could give them only transitory pleasures followed by misery, instead of God Who could give them eternal joy and life, they suffered GREAT LOSS.


Yes, and Adam's sin not only brought down himself, but the whole creation, and God's second book has evidence for what that is and this is the topic of the series.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: dedication] #161632
02/12/14 06:00 AM
02/12/14 06:00 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,663
Canada

By EGW
But Satan came and insinuated doubts of God's wisdom. He accused Him, their heavenly Father and Sovereign of selfishness, because to test their loyalty, He had prohibited them of eating of the tree of knowledge....Adam...fell under the smallest test that the Lord could devise to test his obedience. p. 246 Christ Triumphant

Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: dedication] #161633
02/12/14 06:01 AM
02/12/14 06:01 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,663
Canada
"The knowledge of evil, the curse of sin, was all that the transgressors gained. There was nothing poisonous in the fruit itself, and the sin was not merely in yielding to appetite. It was distrust of God's goodness, disbelief of His word, and rejection of His authority, that made our first parents transgressors, and that brought into the world a knowledge of evil. It was this that opened the door to every species of falsehood and error. {Ed 25.2}

Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: dedication] #161634
02/12/14 06:38 AM
02/12/14 06:38 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,663
Canada
There was nothing poisonous in the fruit itself

So what opened the door to sin and evil?

Distrust of God's goodness
Disbelief of God's word
Rejection of His authority

That is what opened the door to Satan and like Pandora's box, that door could not be closed again -- only the plan of salvation could save mankind.

Re: The Science of Sin and Salvation - Study Series [Re: dedication] #161638
02/12/14 07:10 AM
02/12/14 07:10 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Amen, Dedication.

"It was distrust of God's goodness, disbelief of His word, and rejection of His authority, that made our first parents transgressors, and that brought into the world a knowledge of evil."

The fruit didn't do it. Thoughts and actions did it all. The fruit itself was "perfectly harmless" according to Ellen White.

Does APL believe this? Perhaps now. But there is no excuse to doubt it. Remember, doubting and distrusting God and His Word is sin.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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