HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina
1324 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,200
Posts195,682
Members1,324
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 15
kland 2
asygo 1
June
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,141
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
7 registered members (dedication, TheophilusOne, daylily, Karen Y, Kevin H, 2 invisible), 2,480 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166715
07/08/14 09:48 PM
07/08/14 09:48 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: APL
MM - why do you keep the 7th-day Sabbath?

Because Jesus did. He created it to be observed in a special way. What are your thoughts?
So He created is special, we must keep it. Is that what you are saying?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166719
07/09/14 12:48 AM
07/09/14 12:48 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,468
Canada
Remember the Sabbath day is honouring our Creator.

It is showing that we worship the ONE Who Created the heavens and the earth and all things in it.

Conversion means to "change gods" from the self centered humanistic gods of the world, (the worship of the creature) to following Christ in trust, humility and obedience.

A sign is the genuine acceptance of God's memorial of creation.

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: APL] #166722
07/09/14 01:24 AM
07/09/14 01:24 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: APL
So He created is special, we must keep it. Is that what you are saying?

What are your thoughts?

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166723
07/09/14 01:34 AM
07/09/14 01:34 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Some who are laboring for the people do not know what true conversion means. Some seem to think that if they can do a certain work, they are converted. But they are not submissive to the Spirit of the Lord. {19MR 290.4}

Many who pass under the name of Christian are not converted. Conversion means renovation. The sinner must enter into the renovating process for himself. He must come to Jesus. He must give up the wrong habits in which he has indulged. He must bring his unsubdued, unchristlike tendencies under the control of Christ, else he cannot be made a laborer together with God. Christ works, and the sinner works. The life of Christ becomes the life of the human agent. It is through the renewing power of the divine Spirit that man is fashioned into a perfect man in Christ. {LLM 103.5}

Serve the Lord Jesus Christ with the whole heart. God expects you to purify your soul from all defilement. True conversion means a radical change of heart. {13MR 165.1}

The object of conversion is twofold, personal and relative. It is to bless us, and to make us a blessing. This is an individual work; but those who profess to believe the Word of God have so long accustomed their minds to be content with little things that they have disqualified themselves to discern and appreciate the great things prepared for them. In the place of receiving into good and honest hearts the Word that God sends in messages to help them, to elevate, ennoble, and sanctify them, they cavil and gossip over it, because it cuts directly across their inclinations. In the place of seeing their need of conversion, they regard the means which the Lord has provided to change their characters as idle tales. To them their habits are stronger than truth. Individual conversion means a change of character. Man must place himself in personal relation to Christ, that, in the place of following his own hereditary and cultivated tendencies, he may have the mind of Christ, placing himself under the moulding influence of the Holy Spirit. {ST, November 11, 1897 par. 4}

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166724
07/09/14 01:36 AM
07/09/14 01:36 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Unlike the inspired passages posted above, some believe true conversion means gradually discovering and crucifying cultivated sinful habits and practices.

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166726
07/09/14 03:20 AM
07/09/14 03:20 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Unlike the inspired passages posted above, some believe true conversion means gradually discovering and crucifying cultivated sinful habits and practices.


Unlike some people who look at one way of interpreting vague statements to the exclusion of other direct evidence, I look at the whole not the parts.

""The work of grace upon the heart is not an instantaneous work."

So grace is needed for what if you are instantaneously converted perfectly?

"We should make daily advancement in the work of character-building. When we try to separate from us our sinful habits, it may at times seem that we are tearing ourselves all to pieces; but this is the very work that we must do if we would grow up unto the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus"

So these aren't cultivated habits she is talking about, they are fresh ones? The word "habit" means something that has been around a long time. The grace we need is to overcome our habits and sinful tendencies.

You look at justification like it is to be fully sanctified. What is the purpose of sanctification if there is nothing to overcome at conversion?

since you always insist on me answering yours, ANSWER THIS QUESTION;

According to your description of conversion are YOU fully converted? You keep avoiding answering this and the Holy Spirit demands for you to answer.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166731
07/09/14 02:20 PM
07/09/14 02:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Clarification:

Unlike the inspired passages posted above, some believe true conversion happens first and then people gradually discover and crucify their cultivated sinful habits and practices.

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166736
07/09/14 05:23 PM
07/09/14 05:23 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
What you don't seem to understand, Mike, is that our defects of character are habits we formed since we were babies. If you occasionally speak impatient words, for instance, this is but the manifestation of a long-established habit. After conversion, these habits must still be fought against and overcome. The same is true about other, not so obvious, habits, that may have been unnoticed at the time of conversion and that you notice subsequently, like, for instance, self-pity. I have already mentioned that I only became aware of my habit of self-pity years after my conversion. What is your answer to this? Do you question my conversion?

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: Mountain Man] #166743
07/10/14 04:21 PM
07/10/14 04:21 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, please post inspired passages that describe the process of conversion ending in people ignorantly practicing some of the sinful habits they cultivated prior to completing the process of conversion in God's appointed way.

Quote:
By an agency as unseen as the wind, Christ is constantly working upon the heart. Little by little, perhaps unconsciously to the receiver, impressions are made that tend to draw the soul to Christ. These may be received through meditating upon Him, through reading the Scriptures, or through hearing the Word from the living preacher. Suddenly, as the Spirit comes with more direct appeal, the soul gladly surrenders itself to Jesus. By many this is called sudden conversion; but it is the result of long wooing by the Spirit of God--a patient, protracted process. While the wind is itself invisible, it produces effects that are seen and felt. So the work of the Spirit upon the soul will reveal itself in every act of him who has felt its saving power. When the Spirit of God takes possession of the heart, it transforms the life. Sinful thoughts are put away, evil deeds are renounced; love, humility, and peace take the place of anger, envy, and strife. Joy takes the place of sadness, and the countenance reflects the light of heaven. No one sees the hand that lifts the burden, or beholds the light descend from the courts above. The blessing comes when by faith the soul surrenders itself to God. Then that power which no human eye can see creates a new being in the image of God. {YRP 15.2}

A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or trace all the chain of circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. Christ said to Nicodemus, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest. If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts. {SC 57.2}

Conversion is a work that most do not appreciate. It is not a small matter to transform an earthly, sin-loving mind and bring it to understand the unspeakable love of Christ, the charms of His grace, and the excellency of God, so that the soul shall be imbued with divine love and captivated with the heavenly mysteries. When he understands these things, his former life appears disgusting and hateful. He hates sin, and, breaking his heart before God, he embraces Christ as the life and joy of the soul. He renounces his former pleasures. He has a new mind, new affections, new interest, new will; his sorrows, and desires, and love are all new. . . . Heaven, which once possessed no charms, is now viewed in its riches and glory; and he contemplates it as his future home, where he shall see, love, and praise the One who hath redeemed him by His precious blood. The works of holiness, which appeared wearisome, are now his delight. The Word of God, which was dull and uninteresting, is now chosen as his study, the man of his counsel. It is as a letter written to him from God, bearing the inscription of the Eternal. His thoughts, his words, and his deeds are brought to this rule and tested. He trembles at the commands and threatenings which it contains, while he firmly grasps its promises and strengthens his soul by appropriating them to himself. {FLB 139.2}

Though we cannot see the Spirit of God, we know that men who have been dead in trespasses and sins, become convicted and converted under its operations. The thoughtless and wayward become serious. The hardened repent of their sins, and the faithless believe. The gambler, the drunkard, the licentious, become steady, sober, and pure. The rebellious and obstinate become meek and Christlike. When we see these changes in the character, we may be assured that the converting power of God has transformed the entire man. We saw not the Holy Spirit, but we saw the evidence of its work on the changed character of those who were hardened and obdurate sinners. As the wind moves in its force upon the lofty trees and brings them down, so the Holy Spirit can work upon human hearts, and no finite man can circumscribe the work of God. The Spirit of God is manifested in different ways upon different men. One under the movings of this power will tremble before the word of God. His convictions will be so deep that a hurricane and tumult of feeling seem to rage in his heart, and his whole being is prostrate under the convicting power of the truth. When the Lord speaks forgiveness to the repenting soul, he is full of ardor, full of love to God, full of earnestness and energy, and the life-giving Spirit which he has received cannot be repressed. Christ is in him, a well of water springing up into everlasting life. His feelings of love are as deep and ardent as was his distress and agony. His soul is like the fountain of the great deep broken up, and he pours forth his thanksgiving and praise, his gratitude and joy, until the heavenly harps are tuned to notes of rejoicing. He has a story to tell, but not in any precise, common, methodical way. He is a soul ransomed through the merits of Jesus Christ, and his whole being is thrilled with the realization of the salvation of God. {RH, May 5, 1896 par. 3}

Others are brought to Christ in a more gentle way. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit." You cannot see the operating agency, but you can see its effects. When Nicodemus said unto Jesus, "How can these things be?" Jesus said to him, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" A teacher in Israel, a man among wise men, a man who supposed that he was able to comprehend the science of religion, and yet stumbling at the doctrine of conversion! He was not willing to admit truth, because he could not understand all that was connected with the operation of the power of God; and yet he accepted the facts of nature, although he could not explain or even comprehend them. Like other men of all ages, he was looking to forms and precise ceremonies as more essential to religion than the deep movings of the Spirit of God. {RH, May 5, 1896 par. 4}

The very work that Christ declared necessary in the case of Nicodemus is the very work that needs to be done for those men who think that everything pertaining to religion must be done in a precise, methodical way. They need to be born again; and how the new birth is accomplished matters not, so long as the heart is renewed. When the prayer is sincerely offered, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me," the voice of the Lord answers, "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." The renewed heart will have no plants of selfishness to cultivate. Pride will be seen in its sinfulness, and will be expelled. It is not for the human clay to find fault with the molding process of the potter, but to submit to be molded in any way. Every soul must submit to the Lord before he can be made a vessel unto honor, to be filled with the renewing, sanctifying grace of Christ. {RH, May 5, 1896 par. 5}

The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again. . . . A genuine conversion changes hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong. {Mar 237}

The renewed heart will have no plants of selfishness to cultivate.

The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ.

Re: How does the Bible describe the Process of Conversion? [Re: jamesonofthunder] #166744
07/10/14 04:59 PM
07/10/14 04:59 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
1. "The work of grace upon the heart is not an instantaneous work." So grace is needed for what if you are instantaneously converted perfectly? The grace we need is to overcome our habits and sinful tendencies.

2. You look at justification like it is to be fully sanctified. What is the purpose of sanctification if there is nothing to overcome at conversion?

3. Since you always insist on me answering yours, ANSWER THIS QUESTION; According to your description of conversion are YOU fully converted? You keep avoiding answering this and the Holy Spirit demands for you to answer.

1. "Let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear." Grace empowers us to serve and obey Jesus. Overcoming sinful habits and tendencies means recognizing them and refusing to cherish them or act them out in thought, word or deed. It does not mean gradually outgrowing known or unknown sinful habits. People cannot completely rid themselves of the clamorings of sinful nature but they can and must refuse to cherish or act them out.

Quote:
So fully was Jesus surrendered to the will of God that the Father alone appeared in His life. Although tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world untainted by the evil that surrounded Him. Thus we also are to overcome as Christ overcame. {DA 389.4}

Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming, and then he will be partaker with Christ in His glory. {OFC 28.3}

It is growth in knowledge of the character of Christ that sanctifies the soul. To discern and appreciate the wonderful work of the atonement transforms him who contemplates the plan of salvation. By beholding Christ he becomes changed into the same image, from glory to glory, as by the Spirit of the Lord. The beholding of Jesus becomes an ennobling, refining process. . . . The perfection of Christ’s character is the Christian’s inspiration. . . Christ should never be out of the mind. The angels said concerning Him, “Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins” (Matthew 1:21). Jesus, precious Saviour! assurance, helpfulness, security, and peace are all in Him. He is the dispeller of all our doubts, the earnest of all our hopes. How precious is the thought that we may indeed become partakers of the divine nature, whereby we may overcome as Christ overcame! Jesus is the fullness of our expectation. He is the melody of our songs, the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. He is living water to the thirsty soul. He is our refuge in the storm. He is our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption. {OFC 126.2}

2. Justification happens when people complete the process of conversion in God's appointed way, when they surrender entirely to Jesus. Sanctification is an advance from one stage of perfection to another.

Quote:
But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {FW 100.1}

"The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul." Through obedience comes sanctification of body, soul, and spirit. This sanctification is a progressive work, and an advance from one stage of perfection to another. {ML 250.4}

3. Yes, I have experienced conversion in God's appointed way. While I am abiding in Jesus, while I am walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, while I am partaking of divine nature I experience the promises of God. However, the instant I neglect Jesus I resurrect the mind of the old man and resume where I left off sinning. When I embrace the gift of repentance Jesus empowers me to confess and forsake my sin. Jesus then has the legal right to restore the relationship my sin severed. I resume where I left off abiding in Jesus, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, partaking of divine nature maturing daily in the fruits of the Spirit from "glory to glory," from "faith to faith," from "grace to grace".

Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 06/13/24 11:31 AM
Spiritual Evolution
by dedication. 06/10/24 04:22 AM
Soul and Body sleep
by dedication. 06/10/24 12:21 AM
Creation of the Sabbath at the Beginning.
by dedication. 06/09/24 06:50 PM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 06/07/24 08:04 PM
Deceptive Doctrines of Devils
by dedication. 06/07/24 05:00 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by dedication. 06/07/24 01:04 AM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 06/06/24 05:13 PM
Messages for This Time
by Rick H. 05/30/24 09:44 AM
Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man
by dedication. 05/27/24 10:56 PM
What is the Biblical Reckoning of a Day?
by dedication. 05/27/24 01:26 AM
The Flood
by Rick H. 05/25/24 09:12 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
A campaign against the church
by dedication. 06/15/24 10:48 PM
The Investigative Judgment
by Rick H. 06/15/24 08:22 PM
Will we continue to sin till the end?
by Rick H. 06/15/24 08:15 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by daylily. 06/15/24 08:14 AM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by dedication. 06/10/24 07:32 PM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by dedication. 06/06/24 10:25 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 05/30/24 09:50 AM
What Does EGW Say About Ordination?
by dedication. 05/28/24 12:05 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1