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Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168260
09/20/14 03:45 PM
09/20/14 03:45 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
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California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
This was the ordeal through which Christ passed. He could not have been tempted in all points as man is tempted, had there been no possibility of His failing.

Again, you confuse and conflate the ability to fall with the inclination to fall.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168261
09/20/14 03:47 PM
09/20/14 03:47 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The source of His temptations included sinful flesh and evil beings.

The source of His physical suffering included a hangnail and being nailed to the cross.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168287
09/22/14 01:41 AM
09/22/14 01:41 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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He was tempted like we are - from within and from without.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168339
09/22/14 11:42 PM
09/22/14 11:42 PM
asygo  Offline
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But not *like* we are, given our carnal natures and all that...


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168347
09/23/14 11:34 AM
09/23/14 11:34 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Jesus fought the greatest battle ever fought because He was tempted from within and without like a believer.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168359
09/23/14 05:09 PM
09/23/14 05:09 PM
asygo  Offline
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Yes, the greatest battle, but without cultivated sins.

He battled His self, and I battle my self. He did not battle my self. His battle was harder because my self is wicked and foolish; Bible study clearly shows that I should not follow my self. His self was holy, making His struggle to deny self much harder.

Last edited by asygo; 09/23/14 05:12 PM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168365
09/23/14 10:36 PM
09/23/14 10:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Here's how the SOP defines and describes he "greatest battle"

Quote:
But a warfare against self, subduing the desires and affections of his own heart, and searching out and controlling the secret motives of the heart, is a more difficult warfare. How unwilling is he to be faithful in such a contest as this! The warfare against self is the greatest battle that was ever fought. The yielding of self, surrendering all to the will of God and being clothed with humility, possessing that love that is pure, peaceable, and easy to be entreated, full of gentleness and good fruits, is not an easy attainment. And yet it is his privilege and his duty to be a perfect overcomer here. The soul must submit to God before it can be renewed in knowledge and true holiness. The holy life and character of Christ is a faithful example. His confidence in His heavenly Father was unlimited. His obedience and submission were unreserved and perfect. He came not to be ministered unto, but to minister to others. He came not to do His own will, but the will of Him that sent Him. In all things He submitted Himself to Him that judgeth righteously. From the lips of the Saviour of the world were heard these words: "I can of Mine own self do nothing." {3T 106.2}

The Christian life is a battle and a march. But the victory to be gained is not won by human power. The field of conflict is the domain of the heart. The battle which we have to fight--the greatest battle that was ever fought by man--is the surrender of self to the will of God, the yielding of the heart to the sovereignty of love. The old nature, born of blood and of the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up. {MB 141.2}

He who determines to enter the spiritual kingdom will find that all the powers and passions of an unregenerate nature, backed by the forces of the kingdom of darkness, are arrayed against him. Selfishness and pride will make a stand against anything that would show them to be sinful. We cannot, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that strive for the mastery. We cannot overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He cannot work in us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to co-operate with God. {MB 141.3}

The Christian is enlisted to fight in the cause of God, to be a soldier of Jesus Christ. Jesus fought all our battles during his life upon earth, and in that He was tempted, He knows how to succor those who shall be tempted. We have no power to war with principalities, and powers, and spiritual wickedness in high places, except as we draw strength from Christ. Jesus calls upon you to behold the confederacy of evil, to behold the conflict through which you must pass. He bids us count the cost of standing under the blood-stained banner; He does not flatter us that we shall have no difficulties in this life; but although we shall be tried and tempted in meeting the confederacy of evil, yet we are assured that all the heavenly intelligences will be enlisted on our side in every battle. But the ministry of angels will not ensure us against sorrow and trial. Angels ministered to Jesus; yet their presence did not make his life one of ease, nor free Him from conflict and temptation. While we are engaged in the work which the Master has appointed us to do, though trials and perplexities and temptations press upon us, we should not be discouraged; for we know that One has endured all these temptations before us. {BEcho, December 1, 1892 par. 1}

As God's agents you are to yield yourselves to him, that he may plan and direct and fight the battle for you, with your co-operation. The Prince of life is at the head of his work. He is to be with you in your daily battle with self, that you may be true to principle; that passion, when warring for the mastery, may be subdued by the grace of Christ; that you come off more than conqueror through Him that hath loved us. Jesus has been over the ground. He knows the power of every temptation. He knows just how to meet every emergency, and how to guide you through every path of danger. Then why not trust him? Why not commit the keeping of your soul unto God, as unto a faithful Creator? {RH, July 19, 1892 par. 4}

Jesus fought our battles during his life upon this atom of a world, and all the heavenly intelligences are enlisted on our side in every battle in this warfare. We have no power to war with principalities, and powers, and spiritual wickedness in high places, except as we draw strength from Christ. {RH, October 11, 1892 par. 4}

Jesus came to this earth, marred and seared by the curse, for the purpose of bringing moral power to men. He fought the battle in man's behalf in the wilderness of temptation, and it was the same battle that everyone of us must fight till the close of time. Christ was not overcome in this conflict. {ST, September 30, 1889 par. 3}

"Jesus fought all our battles during his life upon earth, and in that He was tempted, He knows how to succor those who shall be tempted."

"Jesus has been over the ground. He knows the power of every temptation. He knows just how to meet every emergency, and how to guide you through every path of danger."

"Jesus fought our battles during his life upon this atom of a world, and all the heavenly intelligences are enlisted on our side in every battle in this warfare."

"He fought the battle in man's behalf in the wilderness of temptation, and it was the same battle that everyone of us must fight till the close of time."

The idea that Jesus did not fight all the battles believers must fight is untrue. The idea that Jesus was not tempted from within and from without like a believer is also untrue.

Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168369
09/24/14 12:38 AM
09/24/14 12:38 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The idea that Jesus did not fight all the battles believers must fight is untrue.

Yes, He fought all the battles. But not the same ones. I don't think He fought the urge to cheat on His wife.

Furthermore, I don't think He had to battle against cultivated tendencies to sin.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168370
09/24/14 12:41 AM
09/24/14 12:41 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
The idea that Jesus was not tempted from within and from without like a believer is also untrue.

"How unwilling is he to be faithful in such a contest as this!" Was Jesus unwilling to be faithful?

Even after all these years, you still don't believe Jesus had a harder time against temptation.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Jesus denied self just like a born-again believer. [Re: Mountain Man] #168384
09/24/14 12:34 PM
09/24/14 12:34 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, Jesus fought all the same battles believers fight - including cheating, internet [censored], gambling, cocaine, and any other temptation not specifically named in the Bible. He fought each and every one of them and was more than a conqueror. Thank you, Jesus.

Yes, Jesus was tempted on a level that far exceeds levels believers will ever be tempted. But proportionately speaking it is similar - to the very edge of their ability to resist. They might sweat blood like Jesus did. And, yes, Jesus was also tempted on issues believers cannot be tempted, namely, to us His divinity in the wrong way.

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