I'd like to hear when you say the Bible says it falls on.

You will notice that several details were corrected in The Great Controversy owing to the fact that Ellen White used the words of the historians she borrowed from. Ellen White was given the visions and, on describing them, she was left to fill in the historical details by herself; that's why she resorted to the accounts of historians. W. C. White said, "Mother has never claimed to be an authority on history."

In the Second Temple period this verse gave rise to a bitter disagreement between the Pharisees and the Sadducees as to the actual date of the beginning of the counting; the Pharisees began from the second day of Passover, whereas the Sadducees counted from the day following the intermediate Sabbath of Passover.

You will also notice that the Bible does not attach the number 16 to the day when the first fruits were waved before the Lord. And what the Bible says is:

Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

The passage says that the 50 days go "from the morrow after the sabbath" (v. 15) until "the morrow after the seventh sabbath" (v. 16). What is the meaning of the word "sabbath" in these verses?

The 15th was a ceremonial Sabbath, Leviticus 23:4-7. The 16th fits with EGW. In the scenario I gave above, with Passover, the 14th being on a 7th-day Sabbath, would you have us believe that first fruits would not happen until 8-9 days later (depending on if you could inclusive not)? You see Mark, Rosangela does think EGW had it wrong. But I do not think so. Nor do other Adventist writers in EGW's time.

Yes, and I respect her position. Ellen White herself emphatically denied infallibility. Outside of the Testimonies, where she is speaking as the Lord's messenger, we have to be careful.

The reason I was willing to change position was that the Lord also said to her that as she researched topics of other writers the Lord would give her discernment on what parts were true. I have to say though that Roseangela's position is very reasonable given what the prophet herself has said. And Roseangela's agruement from the text of scripture itself is strong to the point that I'm inclined to reverse myself again. Isn't that in keeping with the testimony of both scripture and Ellen White herself?

The morrow after the Sabbath, the Sabbath of Unleaven Bread / Passover. As Levitus 23:15, seven weeks complete. v16, "seven sabbaths", or "week of weeks", then end being 50 days.

If the 16th of the month is not the start, then the feast of unleaven bread (7 days) and the time to Pentecost varies year to year. That is not what happened. The time was sure. It so happened that the timing of the Crucifixion was such that today it adds fuel to Sunday sacredness that is not implied by the type.

The idea is foreign to Hebrew that any seven consecutive days comprise a week. A week was always “Sunday to Saturday.” So the day after a “week” would always be a Sunday. When the Scripture wants to refer to a seven-day period it says “a week of days” (Shavuot Yamim – Eze. 45:6), meaning a span of any seven days. This term is in contrast to the term “week” (Shavua), which is a fixed week, beginning on Sunday and ending on the Sabbath Day. Besides, the word used here is not even shavua, as in Deut. 16:9, but shabbath, which doesn't mean "week" in any other part of the Bible.
We are commanded in Lev 23:16 “Until the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall you count fifty days”. While the first day of Unleavened Bread could theoretically be called a Sabbath, there is no way the 49th day of the Omer could be called a Sabbath. To avoid this, the Rabbinical Jews have to interpret the word “sabbath” in two different ways in the very same verse! They argue that the first sabbath mentioned is none other than the 15th of Nisan, and that here the word “sabbath” means holy day (ceremonial Sabbath). But, in their view, the meaning of “seven sabbaths,” at the end of the verse is seven weeks, and the word “sabbath” in this context means seven days! So, in the same verse the word “sabbath” means “holy day” and “seven days”.

No, I believe the scenario you gave seems to correspond to the scenario found in Joshua 5:10-12:

While the people of Israel were encamped at Gilgal, they kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening on the plains of Jericho. And the day after the Passover, on that very day, they ate of the produce of the land, unleavened cakes and parched grain. And the manna ceased the day after they ate of the produce of the land. And there was no longer manna for the people of Israel, but they ate of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year. (ESV)

God had told Moses that when the Israelites came into the Promised Land, they were not to eat of the new produce of the land until they had offered a sheaf of the firstfruits of the land (Lev. 23:9-14).


In fact, a minister wrote about it to EGW.

Please pay attention to the following statement: “He knew that His hour was come; He himself was the true paschal lamb, and on the day the Passover was eaten He was to be sacrificed” (DA, 642).

If Christ was to be sacrificed on the day the Passover was eaten, and the Passover lamb was eaten on the fifteenth, it is evident that Christ was to be sacrificed on the 15th of Nisan. But if the day the wave sheaf was presented before the Lord (and on which He should rise from the dead) was the second day of the feast, Nisan 16, there would be a contradiction here, since Sunday, according to this statement of EGW, would be a Nisan 17. Elder R. W. Munson wrote to Ellen White about this contradiction, and her secretary gave the following reply:

When these questions come before Sister White, she often says that the Lord has given her the work of writing what she has written, but not of trying to explain every seemingly difficult passage. If she were to take up the burden of harmonizing seemingly contradictory passages, she would not have time to do her regularly appointed work of writing out the words of instruction and admonition that she does write for the Church. She therefore appeals to her brethren to search the Scriptures, and to compare her writings with the Scriptures, and with other portions of her own writings, and thus seek to discover, if possible, the harmony that exists. You will readily understand the reason why she could not enter into all the queries that come to her; and your good judgment will tell you that it is well for us who study her writings, to seek to understand them in the light of other portions of her writings, and by the aid of the daily study of the Scriptures (Letter of C. C. Crisler, secretary of Ellen G. White, to Elder R. W. Munson of the Australasian Union Conference, November 27, 1908).

By the way, indeed the year 31 A.D. does not admit, astronomically, a Nisan 14 as the day for Christ’s death, only a Nisan 15.

How "astronomically" was the New Moon determined? By sighting of the new cresent, not mathematically calculated. So I have no idea on what you base this comment. The Naval Observatory is not necessarily the source to find the exact answer. This has been written about enough by others...

As to the types of the feasts, it is clear that Christ, the type of the First Fruits, would rise on the 3rd day. Passover, start of the feast of Unleaven Bread, Wave Sheaf. Christ the firstfruit, rose on the 3rd day. This was always true for the feasts and the type of Christ and it was understood when Christ would rise again: Matthew 16:21; Matthew 17:23; Matthew 20:19; Mark 9:31; Mark 10:34; Luke 9:22; Luke 13:32; Luke 18:33; Luke 24:7; Luke 24:21; Luke 24:26; Acts 10:40; 1 Corinthians 15:4.

Your quote of Cristler only says that EG White did not explain all scripture. It does not say that what she said was wrong. You are saying she was flat out wrong. That is a strong claim.

Leviticus 23:15-16 - seven sabbaths complete. Is this speaking about the 7th-day sabbath? Or is there a Hebrew idiom that needs to be understood? The Complete Jewish Bible has these verses like this: Leviticus 23:15-16 " 'From the day after the day of rest [that is the first day of Unleaven Bread] — that is, from the day you bring the sheaf for waving — you are to count seven full weeks, 16 until the day after the seventh week; you are to count fifty days; and then you are to present a new grain offering to Adonai.

This fits with Deuteronomy, authored by the same author of Leviticus where it says: Deuteronomy 16:9-10 Seven weeks shall you number to you: begin to number the seven weeks from such time as you begin to put the sickle to the corn. 10 And you shall keep the feast of weeks to the LORD your God with a tribute of a freewill offering of your hand, which you shall give to the LORD your God, according as the LORD your God has blessed you:

Are there any feasts of the Lord which specify the day of the week on which they are to take place? No, not one. The only the 7th-day Sabbath is specified for a particular day.

Please pay attention to the following statement: EGW quoting Luke 22:15: As they were gathered about the table, He said in tones of touching sadness, "With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer: for I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: for I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come." {DA 643.1}

Christ was indeed crucified on the 14th of Nisan, and rose the 3rd day. EGW is still correct.

The new moon was determined by sighting of the new crescent, but there were rules to be followed. Official observers stood on vantage points at sunset on the 29th of a month and scanned the western sky eagerly. If unfavorable weather conditions didn’t permit the crescent to be observed, the month would commence on the following night, even if the crescent was still obscured, because the lunar month had 29 or 30 days. It couldn’t have 31 days, which would be the case if April 13 had been the first day of the month, for April 13 was the fourth sunset after conjunction. The astronomical new moon (conjunction) was on April 10. If the crescent was obscured the first night after conjunction, that is, on the sunset of April 10, which indeed was, owing to the very short time elapsed, the second night must be checked, the sunset of April 11, on which night it was almost visible; then the third night must be checked, the sunset of April 12, on which night the moon was high and old enough to be seen. However, even if weather conditions had prevented it from being seen, the month would have started anyway.


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This argument does not make sense. Christ indeed said He would rise on the 3d day. What He didn't say was that He would die on Nisan 14.


There was a contradiction between two statements of hers, and this contradiction hasn't been solved.


A Hebrew idiom? Sabbath = seven days? As to Deut. 16:9, 10, as I said previously, week = Sunday to Sabbath.


Is there any feast to which a date is not attached in the Bible? Just one - Pentecost. Why?


Did Christ celebrate the Passover on the wrong day? Did He break the law of the Passover? What Ellen White says is that "on the day the Passover was eaten, He was to be sacrificed," not "on the day the Passover was sacrificed, He was to be sacrificed."

The type was He would rise on the 3rd day. This was true every year in the type, no matter when the New Moon occurred. This would not be true if the Wave Sheaf was to be on a specific day of the week, it does not work.

Yes you did say that. . That does not make it true. And I have provided quotes above which show that it was not believed as you have stated. See AT Jones quote.

You are saying both Pentecost and the Wave Sheaf were tied to specific days. You have not proven this and as stated, you are in contradiction to the clear statement of Ellen White. The SDABC which you should be intimately knowledgeable of also states that the Wave Sheaf was on the 16th of Nisan.

Did you just ignore what the Bible said and I quoted above? Was the whole nation wrong? When did the nation eat the Passover? Could Jesus have eaten the Passover AFTER His death? Nope. Again, see EGW quote I provided you and you seemed to have ignored or not understood.