HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,224
Posts196,101
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 19
Rick H 15
asygo 8
Daryl 2
October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,662
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, 3 invisible), 2,066 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Elle] #174274
06/16/15 12:37 PM
06/16/15 12:37 PM
A
Alchemy  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Elle wrote;

"Do you believe that the Lord is blaming all sins to one of His creatures -- Satan?"

Satan is the originator of sin! There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for sin to exist. This is why what Satan did and has continued to do is so hideous. Satan didn't have any reason for any of these actions and feelings of his.

So, the lost will be held responsible for their own sins and Satan will pay for his own sins plus those of the redeemed. Satan is to be blamed for all those sins he will suffer for. Satan is to be blamed for the suffering and murder of Jesus Christ, God's Son!

We shouldn't feel sorry for Satan for anything. (I always hated that song by the Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil)

Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Alchemy] #174277
06/16/15 01:08 PM
06/16/15 01:08 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: elle
"Do you believe that the Lord is blaming all sins to one of His creatures -- Satan?"

Satan is the originator of sin!
....

So, the lost will be held responsible for their own sins and Satan will pay for his own sins plus those of the redeemed. Satan is to be blamed for all those sins he will suffer for. Satan is to be blamed for the suffering and murder of Jesus Christ, God's Son!



Your theory is conflicting with many scriptures. To name three main places:

1- The Lord said He created Evil : "AV Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

2- The owner of the beast (devil) is liable for all of His beast(the devil) doings: 28 And if an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the ox shall surely be stoned and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall go unpunished. 29 If, however, an ox was previously in the habit of goring, and its owner has been warned, yet he does not confine it, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If a ransom is demanded of him, then he shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is demanded of him. 31Whether it gores a son or a daughter, it shall be done to him according to the same rule.

3. It is true that Man and satan hold part of the responsibility for sin, however the Lord said He does not impute their trespasses unto them. AV 2C 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, [b]not imputing their trespasses unto them;[/b]

So your theory has to be adjusted to take these scriptures into account.

Regarding point #3, the Lord is ULTIMATELY responsible for all sins but that doesn't mean that there's no responsibility that man and the devil are responsible for. The Lord is going to use the law to teach us righteousness by bringing us to face the devil and our sins commited. Just because the Lord is using sins to teach us righteousness does not mean He is using our trespasses against us. He is using our trespasses for our benefit -- to teach us righteousness by giving us a chance to pay for our debt (see definition of redemption in Lev 25).

Is 26:9 "... for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

It is thru the law and the judgment of the law that man comes to learn righteousness. The Lord is using sin to teach all of us His righteousness.

Grace does not teach us righteousness :

AV Isa 26:10 Let favour [grace]be shewed to the wicked, [yet] will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.


Blessings
Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: dedication] #174293
06/16/15 06:27 PM
06/16/15 06:27 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
Christ as our Creator stepped in and took the full fury of the blame. He bore all the sins of the world to the cross and felt the guilt of their weight, being crushed by them.

Not only to the cross (where He give His flesh and blood in sacrifice), but to the grave as well. And those two places were typified on the Levitical Day of Atonement, respectively, by the altar of sacrifice outside the sanctuary and the barren wilderness outside the camp.

For the people, therefore:
1. His atoning blood was of the goat offered by the High Priest, and
2. His body which bore the sin of the world by the goat led into the wilderness.

When Jesus was done being crucified, as he hung upon the cross, when he was just about to give up the ghost, what did he say? "It is finished." That is, "I have provided full atonement for all to the very utmost. The deed has been signed in my blood." THEN AND ONLY THEN, he was taken away to the grave by Joseph of Aramathea and Nicodemus. But on the third day, he arose and appeared to many "within the camp" and blessed them saying, "Peace be unto you."

///

Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Alchemy] #174294
06/16/15 09:15 PM
06/16/15 09:15 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,662
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Elle wrote;

"Do you believe that the Lord is blaming all sins to one of His creatures -- Satan?"

Satan is the originator of sin! There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for sin to exist. This is why what Satan did and has continued to do is so hideous. Satan didn't have any reason for any of these actions and feelings of his.

So, the lost will be held responsible for their own sins and Satan will pay for his own sins plus those of the redeemed. Satan is to be blamed for all those sins he will suffer for. Satan is to be blamed for the suffering and murder of Jesus Christ, God's Son!

We shouldn't feel sorry for Satan for anything. (I always hated that song by the Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil)


AMEN

It is satan that seeks to blame God for sin, and leads people to excuse their sinning on the same bases.

God created a perfect world, perfect angels, perfect humans, -- He did not create robots that looked like angels and humans. He created PERFECT beings with perfect minds and reasoning power.

Sin has no excuse, no reason and is the inexcusable disregard of God's law upon which the wellbeing and happiness of His creation is based.


Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Elle] #174295
06/16/15 09:44 PM
06/16/15 09:44 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,662
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: dedication

Who is responsible for sin?

-- the responsibility is two fold.

1. we need to acknowledge our responsibility for our sins, and come to Christ for forgiveness and cleansing. Come --
Rev. 1:5 Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood.
He took our guilt that we might have life and righteousness!

Those who do not take responsibility for their own sin and do not come to Christ for cleansing will bear their own sin into eternal death.

2. Satan is the author and originator of sin, the tempter and deceiver that has played upon human minds and emotions causing all sorts of havoc, destruction and misery in this world.


Throwing the responsibility to others comes from MAN. It was the first thing Adam and Eve did when they sin. The Man blamed Eve, and Eve blamed the serpent. Neither took the responsibility for their sin.



Throwing responsibility of sin on God began at the very start of sin.
Adam blamed God for making Eve,(The woman whom you gave to be with me) Eve blamed God for making the serpent. Lucifer blamed God for making laws that supposedly restricted the freedom of the angels. (I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (Isa. 14:13)

SIN blames God and His law for the trouble that sin makes, when in reality that blame is the fuel for sin to keep burning fiercer and blocks recovery.
God and His law are not responsible for sin --
God and His throne of righteousness based upon His law of love is the very source of righteousness and peace, happiness and life.

In the end the whole universe will realize who is responsible for sin -- and it isn't God.

Originally Posted By: Elle
The Lord did NOT confined Satan(the ox) after the Heaven incidence and let the ox gore Adam and Eve.....Responsibility for sin goes to the owner of the creature.


Actually God DID confine Satan --
He was confined to the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Adam and Eve were told to stay away from the "ox" or they would get "gored to death".

By disobeying God THEY chose to release the "ox" from his "pen" or tree and allow him to trample upon all their children.

But God can and will confine that "ox' if we come to Him. Christ will change our hearts and desires if we focus on Him and on His Word. He will cleanse us from sin and give us eternal life in a hereafter where there will be no "ox".

Yes, Christ did take the responsibility for our sins to the cross so we can have LIFE eternal if we come to Him.

Yet, in the end everyone will know where the REAL responsibility for all sin lies. And it is NOT God.

Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Alchemy] #174296
06/16/15 10:00 PM
06/16/15 10:00 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,662
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle

Grace does not teach us righteousness


It is ONLY Grace that can teach true righteousness.

Experiences of the consequences of sin only leads to people complying outwardly because they don't want to experience the consequences, but grace changes the heart and desires from within and leads to true righteousness.

"grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:21

It is grace that releases us from the dominion of sin!
Romans 6:14,22 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
Now being made free from sin, we become servants to God, we have our fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: dedication] #174344
06/18/15 11:38 AM
06/18/15 11:38 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
Throwing responsibility of sin on God began at the very start of sin.
Adam blamed God for making Eve,(The woman whom you gave to be with me) Eve blamed God for making the serpent. Lucifer blamed God for making laws that supposedly restricted the freedom of the angels. (I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (Isa. 14:13)

Dedication, all the above that you said is not found in scriptures. Scripture does not say that Adam, nor Eve blame the Lord for their action. Also scripture does not say that Satan blamed the Lord in Gen 3 or what you say above in Isa 14:13. You need to be very careful with that. It’s very serious when we add to scriptures. That’s how teachings of men (heart idols) take roots and these will blind you.

There are some truth to what Adam and Eve said. It is true that it was the woman that first got deceived, and it is true that the serpent in the garden deceived her. Even if they would of truthfully acknowledge the Lord’s responsibility into this and had used it to blame Him; the thing is ALL BLAMING is not the right attitude no matter if what we say is correct.

There were 3 problems with Adam’s & Eve’s blaming :
1. They never acknowledge or confess their own part and fault in the events.
2. They lied or was deceitful by hiding their part and doing.
3. They didn’t acknowledge the Lord’s Sovereignty in making this event happen and submit by trusting in His wisdom and provision for their education.

Originally Posted By: dedication
SIN blames God and His law for the trouble that sin makes, when in reality that blame is the fuel for sin to keep burning fiercer and blocks recovery.
God and His law are not responsible for sin --
God and His throne of righteousness based upon His law of love is the very source of righteousness and peace, happiness and life.

In the end the whole universe will realize who is responsible for sin -- and it isn't God.

You seem to not acknowledge the Law of liability. Or you want to ignore it exist and not apply this law to what happened in the garden. Ignoring will not make void that law nor the fact that the Lord is the owner of Satan and Man. According to that law, whatever they do, He is ultimately responsible for their action. There’s no way around it. That’s what the law of liability teaches and much more.

Remember, Jesus gaved these laws. He said He will fulfill them all. That includes the law of liabilities. He uses these laws to save men. "We know that all things work together for good" because we know that the Lord always can bring good out of evil by hitting all the targets in all things that He does. Sin is define as "a missing" or not hitting the Target.(see the Hebrew word kataw for sin. Compare Jud20:16 with Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God) It will take some time, but at the end all the target of His righteousness will be hit right in the center.

Quote:
Elle : The Lord did NOT confined Satan(the ox) after the Heaven incidence and let the ox gore Adam and Eve.....Responsibility for sin goes to the owner of the creature.
//
Dedication : Actually God DID confine Satan --
He was confined to the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Adam and Eve were told to stay away from the "ox" or they would get "gored to death".

Putting Satan on earth where he can “gore to death” the whole human race is by far confinement. Satan was in heaven and should have been confined as soon as He started to “gore” other angels. A proper confinement is a place where the beast cannot do anyone any further harm. This was not done.

Originally Posted By: dedication
By disobeying God THEY chose to release the "ox" from his "pen" or tree and allow him to trample upon all their children.

That’s non-sense and you're trying real hard to make the law of liability void.


Blessings
Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: dedication] #174345
06/18/15 11:59 AM
06/18/15 11:59 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Elle

Grace does not teach us righteousness


It is ONLY Grace that can teach true righteousness.

Experiences of the consequences of sin only leads to people complying outwardly because they don't want to experience the consequences, but grace changes the heart and desires from within and leads to true righteousness.

"grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:21

It is grace that releases us from the dominion of sin!
Romans 6:14,22 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
Now being made free from sin, we become servants to God, we have our fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Dedication, these texts does not say Grace teaches men righteousness. I acknowledge and understand that Grace has an important part in the plan of salvation.

What Isaiah 26:9,10 says clearly is that Grace does not teach righteousness. It is the Law or judgment of the Law that teaches man righteousness. Anyone that has children knows this basic principle. If you only give grace to your children when they do wrong, that will not teach them righteousness(to do right). What teaches them is correction (to bring a judgment on them depending on their action).

Here's is to bring back into context why we brought up Is 26:9,10

Originally Posted By: elle
3. It is true that Man and satan hold part of the responsibility for sin, however the Lord said He does not impute their trespasses unto them. AV 2C 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, [b]not imputing their trespasses unto them;[/b]

So your [Alchemy] theory has to be adjusted to take these scriptures into account.

Regarding point #3, the Lord is ULTIMATELY responsible for all sins but that doesn't mean that there's no responsibility that man and the devil are responsible for. The Lord is going to use the law to teach us righteousness by bringing us to face the devil and our sins commited. Just because the Lord is using sins to teach us righteousness does not mean He is using our trespasses against us. He is using our trespasses for our benefit -- to teach us righteousness by giving us a chance to pay for our debt (see definition of redemption in Lev 25).

Is 26:9 "... for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

It is thru the law and the judgment of the law that man comes to learn righteousness. The Lord is using sin to teach all of us His righteousness.

Grace does not teach us righteousness :

AV Isa 26:10 Let favour [grace]be shewed to the wicked, [yet] will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.


Blessings
Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Elle] #174796
07/01/15 08:55 AM
07/01/15 08:55 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Blessings Elle,

Sin is never and can never be God's fault. God tried everything to save Lucifer and keep him from falling, but lucifer refused to listen and fell from grace and Heaven. That is when Lucifer became Satan never to return to righteousness.

Re: Who is the Fit Man of Leviticus 16? [Re: Alchemy] #174806
07/01/15 10:28 AM
07/01/15 10:28 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Blessings Elle,

Sin is never and can never be God's fault. God tried everything to save Lucifer and keep him from falling, but lucifer refused to listen and fell from grace and Heaven. That is when Lucifer became Satan never to return to righteousness.


Agreed. Let's remain true to this principle


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 10/31/24 12:59 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by Kevin H. 10/27/24 09:03 PM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 08:25 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 10/23/24 11:55 AM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 10/15/24 12:56 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 10/14/24 12:13 PM
The October 7th Massacre and Zechariah 9 Prophecy
by dedication. 10/08/24 05:41 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by asygo. 10/31/24 07:32 PM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by kland. 10/30/24 12:20 PM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 10/29/24 01:14 AM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 10/25/24 08:01 PM
The 1260 Year Prophecy & The Roman Catholic Church
by dedication. 10/22/24 02:32 PM
What Should Be Our Response to the "Sunday Laws"?
by dedication. 10/13/24 01:08 AM
Are The Prophecies Important?
by dedication. 10/08/24 04:18 PM
The Beast and the Image Beast
by Rick H. 10/05/24 04:40 AM
A campaign against the church
by dedication. 10/03/24 11:50 PM
Why Is Papacy Uniting COVID/Climate Change
by kland. 10/03/24 12:06 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1