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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: kland]
#178222
11/18/15 08:49 AM
11/18/15 08:49 AM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Elle :"Offering substitute sacrifices for our sins is a Pagan ritual and is not part of God’s way of justice."
ProdigalOne : Are you saying the Old Testament sacrificial system instituted by God was "a Pagan ritual"?
Jesus, the Lamb of God, offered Himself in our place. He took our punishment, paid our debt. Was His "substitute sacrifice" "a Pagan ritual"??? From my own studies(and this doesn’t come from Stephen at all as he never address this), this “substitution” notion stem from mis-understanding Isaiah 53:5 and from not understanding the meaning of the law of redemption or the sacrifices. I made it very clear it my explanation my view why(read it again) and I never said nor even closely implied that Jesus sacrifice was pagan. ProdigalOne, this is the third time(even 4th or more as I let many of them pass by) I catch you misrepresenting what I said (false witness). Be careful OK. Again if you want to dig more into it, it would require to open another discussion because this type of study will require to go all over the Bible. Elle, I have never intentionally misrepresented what you said! Your accusations are unfounded. I will admit that sometimes it is difficult to understand exactly what you are saying. Our exchange on your "A New Global Economics Restructure" thread is a prime example. If you will carefully read my previous post, you will see that I was asking for clarification of your view: " ARE YOU SAYING the Old Testament sacrificial system instituted by God was "a Pagan ritual"?" By chance have you ever read the following? http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/201...h.aSVr9kaM.dpufThe principles do seem to apply to the current situation. Only way I can make sense out of it. Especially when she accuses you of going off topic when she totally side railed your topic claiming it was necessary for understanding. Yet without addressing and clarifying all the side topics she brings up. Excellent link, kland! I must confess, I have long suspected such paid shills were stalking the Internet, but this is the first evidence, albeit anecdotal evidence, that I have seen. I have come across several trolls on this site, now I am thinking some of them may be professionals. I am also beginning to wonder about our "sister" Elle...
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: Elle]
#178224
11/18/15 09:25 AM
11/18/15 09:25 AM
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OP
SDA
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
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You are an intelligent man who have shown much capacity of comprehension in a discussion. I don't believe one bit that it is a case of mis-comprehension of what I've said. I had supply a lenghty explanation with scriptures why I don't view Christ sacrifice as a "substitution" but rather a "covering" aka a "redemption of the debt note". There's a big difference between these two systems and its legal implication. I understand that "substitution sacrifice" is a widespread concept in Christiandom, however it doesn't mean that it is Biblical as many other concepts aren't. Also you are very eloquent in your writings skills. I see no lack there either. -- Thus you could of formulated your question more accuratly reflecting what I have said without shedding any false light. You could of counter my points and scriptures I gave. You could of brought other texts to show why you believe Jesus sacrifice was a "substitution". This would of shown your good intentions. But no -- none of that was shown but instead you have said what you have said that was a mis-representation and twisting of what I have said -- for a very specific goal. Sorry but it doesn't fly at all. Elle :"Offering substitute sacrifices for our sins is a Pagan ritual and is not part of God’s way of justice."
ProdigalOne : Are you saying the Old Testament sacrificial system instituted by God was "a Pagan ritual"?
Jesus, the Lamb of God, offered Himself in our place. He took our punishment, paid our debt. Was His "substitute sacrifice" "a Pagan ritual"??? From my own studies(and this doesn’t come from Stephen at all as he never address this), this “substitution” notion stem from mis-understanding Isaiah 53:5 and from not understanding the meaning of the law of redemption or the sacrifices. I made it very clear it my explanation my view why(read it again) and I never said nor even closely implied that Jesus sacrifice was pagan. ProdigalOne, this is the third time(even 4th or more as I let many of them pass by) I catch you misrepresenting what I said (false witness). Be careful OK. Again if you want to dig more into it, it would require to open another discussion because this type of study will require to go all over the Bible. Elle, I have never intentionally misrepresented what you said! Your accusations are unfounded. I will admit that sometimes it is difficult to understand exactly what you are saying. Our exchange on your "A New Global Economics Restructure" thread is a prime example. If you will carefully read my previous post, you will see that I was asking for clarification of your view: " ARE YOU SAYING the Old Testament sacrificial system instituted by God was "a Pagan ritual"?" So Elle, you know precisely why I "formulate" my questions as I do? Wow! On top of your "special" biblical insight, you are also a mind reader! Amazing! It must be wonderful to have the ability to know what someone else is thinking when they write a response to one of your posts! You are to be congratulated for such unique gifts! As for your claim that "Christ's sacrifice (is not) a "substitution" but rather a "covering" aka a "redemption of the debt note". It sounds like semantic juggling, in order to introduce more of your prosperity gospel terminology, to me. When Jesus paid my debt, He took my place as the debtor! He was NOT some sort of banker drawing a line through a number. He humbled Himself and BECAME the object of God's wrath! "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree"! Galations 3:13 Jesus did not write some sort of cheque to cover my debt! He took my place! He suffered the punishment that was mine! He died the second death IN MY PLACE! "By His stripes we are healed!" He did not merely pay for the sin of Adam, He became the Second Adam!
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#178225
11/18/15 09:48 AM
11/18/15 09:48 AM
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OP
SDA
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Elle, as the Original Poster, I request that you get back on topic.
As kland stated: "How was the Sabbath changed to Sunday?"
Since we are talking about literally keeping Sabbath or literally keeping Sunday, let's not muddy the water with anymore "spiritual" Old Testament Laws.
We are talking about LITERAL Sabbath keeping versus LITERAL Sunday keeping.
No more endless Old Testament meandering and head-scratching logic, get to the point, if you have one. Please, present some cogent evidence or admit that your view is unbiblical!
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#178226
11/18/15 09:50 AM
11/18/15 09:50 AM
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SDA
Active Member 2018
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
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Sometimes I have to wonder if some of these differences have more to do with semantics. So, if my post in redundant, I apologize.
But, I heard a Pastor speaking recently on keeping the law and he made a very insightful analogy.
He talked about law and principle. And he used the example of speed limits. And he asked what is the purpose of speed limits. And the accepted answer for why there are speed limits was "Safety"!
Consequently, he said that if you live by the law, or legalistic, as long as you sense a chance of getting caught you obey the speed limit. But, as soon as you sense there isn't much threat of getting caught, you speed like a bandit.
But, if you live by principle, because of your care for other people and animals and such, even if you know there aren't any police around, you won't speed. You care too much about yourself and others and animals to risk a few moments of recklessness.
I must say, I agree with this assessment.
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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#178250
11/18/15 10:59 PM
11/18/15 10:59 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
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Excellent link, kland!
I must confess, I have long suspected such paid shills were stalking the Internet, but this is the first evidence, albeit anecdotal evidence, that I have seen.
Yes, that instance could very well be a made up thing. But the first I had ever seen it presented, and there's no reason to believe such things cannot and are not happening. Of the present instance, the last few posts just struck me as the direct following of a template script.
Elle, as the Original Poster, I request that you get back on topic.
As kland stated: "How was the Sabbath changed to Sunday?"
I'm just speculating here, but perhaps the reaction was to strong with the previous thread and by the initiation of this thread, I doubt she will bring up or address the topic for a long time. Hence, these side trips. The thinking, the goal was approached to fast.
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Re: Sabbath Law According To Stephen Jones
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#178342
11/21/15 12:07 PM
11/21/15 12:07 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Yes, I too have noticed a tendency to divert intense lines of debate into new threads. I just finished reading the "are the Feast Days and Sabbaths still Binding?" thread. I lost count of how many times this strategy was employed!
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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