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Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: Alchemy] #179415
02/13/16 03:26 PM
02/13/16 03:26 PM
asygo  Offline
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Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
1) Physically; The nature of Adam's sons and daughters.
2) Morally; Adam before the fall.

I agree with that. I would also add that intellectually - the third aspect of human nature - He was fallen like Cain.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: Daryl] #179419
02/13/16 03:40 PM
02/13/16 03:40 PM
C
Charity  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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Good question Daryl. This is a critical and inexhaustible subject. We could write book after book because as Ellen White says; "The incarnation of Christ is the mystery of all mysteries." {FLB 48.2}. She also says:
Quote:
The humanity of the Son of God is everything to us. It is the golden chain that binds our souls to Christ, and through Christ to God. This is to be our study. Christ was a real man; He gave proof of His humility in becoming a man. Yet He was God in the flesh. When we approach this subject, we would do well to heed the words spoken by Christ to Moses at the burning bush, "Put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground" (Exodus 3:5). We should come to this study with the humility of a learner, with a contrite heart. And the study of the incarnation of Christ is a fruitful field, which will repay the searcher who digs deep for hidden truth. {1SM 244.1}


The most important reason to study the humanity of the Lord it that when we understand how Christ overcame as a man we'll have the tools to do the same. This is not optional. The remnant "keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev 14:12. So the remnant has to understand the faith of Jesus, how He overcame by faith in the Father and live it.

The last part of the chapter “Calvary” in the DA describes the final victory of Christ on the cross. She describes how, after being nailed to the cross it was lifted and thrust into place. Christ suffered in agony but his face was serene and full of love. As the torture intensified He was finally enshrouded in darkness for the final hours as He drank the last dregs. Throughout this ordeal He relied on the former tokens of His Father's love. This sustained Him. Although feeling completely forsaken, He clung to the memory of the Father's justice, mercy and love. His victory consisted in riding through this storm until every drop of His will was in submission to the Father so that no matter what happened, including eternal separation, His trust was unbroken. When He reached that point of faith and trust – at the cost of a broken heart - His sense of forsakenness left him and then John says “knowing all things were now accomplished” he asked for a drink. It's as though He knew His heart was already physically torn but that the liquid would complete the final rending, and after receiving the vinegar on a sprig of hyssop, He cried with a loud voice saying “It is finished. Father into thy hands I commend my spirit.” Luke 23:46 and John 19:30.


Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: asygo] #179431
02/14/16 03:52 AM
02/14/16 03:52 AM
His child  Offline
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TN, USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
But let's not forget that some angels initially followed Satan, then turned back to God. It seems redemption was available to angels at some point.


After probation for angels ended and they were cast out of heaven there was no turning back. And that was before Satan knowingly deceived Adam and Eve after they had been told that to eat from the tree of good and evil would result in death.

Wouldn't these circumstances have a bearing on the situation?


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: asygo] #179438
02/14/16 11:38 AM
02/14/16 11:38 AM
C
Charity  Offline
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Quote:
Let us consider how much it cost our Saviour in the wilderness of temptation to carry on in our behalf the conflict with the wily, malignant foe. Satan knew that everything depended upon his success or failure in his attempt to overcome Christ with his manifold temptations. Satan knew that the plan of salvation would be carried out to its fulfillment, that his power would be taken away, that his destruction would be certain, if Christ bore the test that Adam failed to endure. The temptations of Satan were most effective in degrading human nature, for man could not stand against their powerful influence; but Christ in man's behalf, as man's representative, resting wholly upon the power of God, endured the severe conflict, in order that He might be a perfect example to us. There is hope for man. . . . The work before us is to overcome as Christ overcame. He fasted forty days, and suffered the keenest pangs of hunger. Christ suffered on our account beyond our comprehension, and we should welcome trial and suffering on our own account for Christ's sake, that we may overcome as Christ also overcame, and be exalted to the throne of our Redeemer. . . . {TMK 33.2}

Christ . . . is the ladder. The base is planted firmly on the earth in His humanity; the topmost round reaches to the throne of God in His divinity. The humanity of Christ embraces fallen humanity, while His divinity lays hold upon the throne of God. We are saved by climbing round after round of the ladder, looking to Christ, clinging to Christ, mounting step by step to the height of Christ, so that He is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity are the rounds of this ladder. All these graces are to be manifested in the Christian character; and "if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." {Mar 84.3}

Never, in any way, leave the slightest impression upon human minds that a taint of, or inclination to, corruption rested upon Christ, or that He in any way yielded to corruption. He was tempted in all points like as man is tempted, yet He is called "that holy thing." It is a mystery that is left unexplained to mortals that Christ could be tempted in all points like as we are, and yet be without sin. The incarnation of Christ has ever been, and will ever remain a mystery. That which is revealed, is for us and for our children, but let every human being be warned from the ground of making Christ altogether human, such an one as ourselves; for it cannot be. 5BC 1128 – 1129.

Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: His child] #179441
02/14/16 09:10 PM
02/14/16 09:10 PM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: asygo
But let's not forget that some angels initially followed Satan, then turned back to God. It seems redemption was available to angels at some point.


After probation for angels ended and they were cast out of heaven there was no turning back. And that was before Satan knowingly deceived Adam and Eve after they had been told that to eat from the tree of good and evil would result in death.

Wouldn't these circumstances have a bearing on the situation?

I think so. But here's the situation I see, in chronological order:
Satan rebelled against God
Some of the angels followed Satan
Some of those angels turned back to God
Satan was kicked out of heaven
Satan deceived man
God became a man
Satan killed God
The angels of heaven were finally fully convinced that Satan was incorrigible

Many thousands of years are spanned in that summary. Somewhere in there is a time when Jesus saved angels. But that salvation did not answer all the questions the angels had.

Christ's incarnation answers everything such that sin will not arise again.

Last edited by asygo; 02/15/16 03:10 PM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: asygo] #179443
02/15/16 06:03 PM
02/15/16 06:03 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
Many thousands of years are spanned in that summary. Somewhere in there is a time when Jesus saved angels. But that salvation did not answer all the questions the angels had. Christ's incarnation answers everything such that sin will not arise again.

What questions did the angels have?

///

Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: asygo] #179448
02/16/16 02:28 AM
02/16/16 02:28 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
1) Physically; The nature of Adam's sons and daughters.
2) Morally; Adam before the fall.

I agree with that. I would also add that intellectually - the third aspect of human nature - He was fallen like Cain.


I agree with that.

It is amazing to think of the choices Cain made after God reasoned with him.

I have always had a harder time with the intellectual issue with Christ. But, I do believe the intellect has fallen in fallen human beings, and so the same with Christ.

Yet, Christ was perfectly committed to the Father and never sinned in any thought, desire or deed.

Last edited by Alchemy; 02/16/16 02:33 AM.
Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: James Peterson] #179458
02/17/16 08:59 AM
02/17/16 08:59 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: asygo
Many thousands of years are spanned in that summary. Somewhere in there is a time when Jesus saved angels. But that salvation did not answer all the questions the angels had. Christ's incarnation answers everything such that sin will not arise again.

What questions did the angels have?

They are questions at the heart of the Great Controversy. Is Lucifer all that bad? Is God as good as He claims to be?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: asygo] #179465
02/19/16 12:09 AM
02/19/16 12:09 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: asygo
Many thousands of years are spanned in that summary. Somewhere in there is a time when Jesus saved angels. But that salvation did not answer all the questions the angels had. Christ's incarnation answers everything such that sin will not arise again.

What questions did the angels have?

They are questions at the heart of the Great Controversy. Is Lucifer all that bad? Is God as good as He claims to be?

And the Biblical evidence for this is?

Christ came to this world to receive what was his, not to prove that the devil is the worse being that will ever exist. However, he came to his own, and his own received him not; and so he died. Nevertheless, God (who is merciful and just), gave him all things because he was faithful always.

"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house, bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory." (Heb. 3:1-6)

Because we are Christ's house, he came to claim what was rightfully his. That's the Biblical reason for the Incarnation; but some have invented vain convoluted ideas over which many are made to stumble.

///

Re: Why Does the Human Nature of Christ Matter? [Re: James Peterson] #179470
02/20/16 03:30 AM
02/20/16 03:30 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. (Luke 19:10) That may have more facets than is revealed by the "taking back what's mine" model.

Do you believe in the Great Controversy motif?


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
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