Most excellent post!

But how does he think those that reject God die? By "given the death penalty", which means what? Execution? hm...

Ooops, didn't see where he contradicted himself. I meant the first part: Love me or I torch you.

Looking at it again, I'm not sure I understand it. He builds it up and then like shoots himself in the foot. As in, It can't be true love to love a God like that so that's why He sets you on fire. But it does match previous contradictions: Just because God destroys does not make Him a destroyer.

You posted this ???-reply to GreenC AFTER my detailed replied to Green's post by which implies that you disagree to my comment while agreeing to Greens. That is fine and I'm not surprised of your disagreement with me; however you gave no meat to where & why you were in disagreement with my comment and where and why you were in aggreement to Green's position.

This lack of substantiating your comment only brought ??? besides just being a plain non-sense comment as correctly expressed by APL.

I think I explained which portion I agreed with in further comments to APL and Alchemy.
When Green says multiple contradictary views in the same sentence, what do you expect?

But how does he think those that reject God die? By "given the death penalty", which means what? Execution? hm.

Not sure where he said such.

It appears you believe in a God of force who will force everyone to eventually agree with Him. More than this, I suppose everyone must also love Him. You believe He will continue to force these points with everyone until 49,000 years (or more as necessary, I suppose?) have passed.

If I hold a gun to your head and tell you that you must love me and marry me or else...would you love me? Would you marry me? You might marry me, you might say you loved me, but would your heart really be in it? Would you not really be simply giving in to my demands out of fear?

Do you believe in this kind of God? Do you feel it would be better to be forced to live and love Him against your will than to be given the death penalty?

People often choose to die rather than to do certain things in life--should this choice be removed from everyone forever? No one has a choice but to serve the master like slaves? Do you think everyone, Satan included, would actually love a forceful God like this?

Kland, before proceeding in answering your post above; I would like you to substantiate what you mean in your brief comment to Green's post.

You posted this ???-reply to GreenC AFTER my detailed replied to Green's post by which implies that you disagree to my comment while agreeing to Greens. That is fine and I'm not surprised of your disagreement with me; however you gave no meat to where & why you were in disagreement with my comment and where and why you were in aggreement to Green's position. This lack of substantiating your comment only brought ??? besides just being a plain non-sense comment as correctly expressed by APL.

You did reply to APL by saying :

???? kland please go back and elaborate where you disagree with me and why you agreed with GreenC?

Love Define in Scriptures

I see two-ways in the Bible how love is explicitly define :

#1. A Father that corrects his children == LOVE (Deut 8:5; Ps 94:12; Prov 3:12; 13:24; Heb 12:8; Rev 3:19)

#2. Someone that take upon them self to pay for the sins of others == LOVE (John 10:11; 15:16;Phil 2:17; 1Thes 2:8; 1Jn 2:9; 3:16)


Love at the Great White Throne Judgment

I see the Great White throne judgment after the Millennium an expression of the Father's Love in both #1 and #2 above.

-#1 because He will corrects his children by requiring them to pay restitution for their sins as according to the law .... while teaching them righteousness (Is 26:9 "...for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.")

-#2 because His body of Elects that resurrected at the 1st resurrection will redeem(=atonement) their debt by taken upon themselves to labor with them while making sure that the restitution prescribed at the Great White throne judgment is met according to the law.

This is the love I see in this view as, to me; I see it more in harmony with what the Scriptures defines as Love and as justice.

Where's the Love in your Literal Hell Fire view?

However, Green's view and all the rest of you who debate endlessly on minor nuances but in actuality you believe in all the same theory and end result : in a LITERAL hell fire punishment that ANNIHILATE everyone permanently --- and you call this LOVE???

The Forcefullness in the Literal Hell Fire view versus the Restitution of all things view

While you are all in denial by thinking that this punishment is not FORCEFULL???? While saying that my view for a Father to require for them to pay restitution for their sins is forcefull??? And while my view includes if their debt is so great that it is not paid before the end of the Great Jubilee; then their remaining debt will be forgiven and all will be restored to their glorious body according to the JUBILEE LAW?????

Guys....something wrong with your reasoning while your position is not in harmony with all scriptures!

Ok Elle, I can see maybe why you're confused. They say truth is stranger than fiction. In this case, my worst imagination of Green's view pales in comparison to his views expressed in that post.


Green is saying one can't love a God who threatens you. I agree, APL agrees. I couldn't believe Green accepted that. But I failed to read the macabre twist he gave it. APL pointed that out to me.

So since people would not truly love God and be happy with a God who says love me or I set you on fire, Green says God will then kill them rather than let them live and not truly love a God who would kill them for not loving Him. Confusing? Yes. But I skipped over that one part and thought he was making sense for once.

What we have here, is Hitler saying anyone who doesn't love him will be killed. Does anyone not love me? Ah, there's one. Take him out back and kill him. It's for his own happiness because he couldn't be happy loving me against his will. Anyone else don't love me? Didn't think so.

No one loves him, but they are very quite about it.

But, if in the end, they believe wrong and reject God in this life, God in His righteousness will destroy all those who reject Him because God has determined to have an entire creation that loves Him in return for all eternity.

I'm sure Green is partly right(like Mountain Man was), and you guys are partly right; while everyone are also wrong .... simply because we all ignore or tweak texts that doesn't fit our pre-conceived idea. The truth is found in embracing all texts.

I'm pretty sure that Tom and APL have shown both types of texts and showed how to resolve them. However, MM chose to ignore texts he didn't like and failed to even attempt to resolve them. While Green says the texts doesn't mean what they say. Example: Just because God destroys doesn't mean He's a destroyer.

So yes, one must look at both types of texts and find a way to resolve them. I see both Tom and APL have done this.