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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182764
03/14/17 06:12 PM
03/14/17 06:12 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context. Please post your sources. I posted the source I quoted. If you want other sources google them. Oh, but you did already find another source, since you handed a copy of the Pope's homily to your class. Since, it seems that you have already verified that the homily is posted on other sites, your request seems rather disingenuous.
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182765
03/14/17 06:19 PM
03/14/17 06:19 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context. As for the legitimacy of Hal Mayer, I must confess that I had never heard of him before yesterday. I was merely searching for a complete text of the Pope's homily, not a commentary on it. So of the "five or six" websites and two videos you researched you posted a link to someone you had never heard of before, which was not actually a "complete text of the Pope's homily" but a commentary on it. This is hardly legitimate scholarship. It appears to me that both you and dedication have twisted the words of the Pope to fit your bias. This is not to defend the Pope; I have no interest in doing that. All I look for is academic honesty. Bottom line: In my opinion, the Pope did not say what you claim he said. "By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive". Matthew 13:14
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#182766
03/14/17 06:40 PM
03/14/17 06:40 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182767
03/14/17 06:50 PM
03/14/17 06:50 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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So I took a transcript of the Pope's homily and handed it out to my high school class of Humanities students. I gave them only the text of the homily, without identifying who said it where. After discussing their feedback regarding what it was talking about I asked them if they thought the author was saying NOT to keep the commandments. NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAD THAT IDEA. What feedback I did get was that they thought the author was saying that if one focuses only on keeping the commandments this can negatively affect one's Christian growth. Commandment keeping is important, but there are so many more aspects of the Christian life such as remembrance. This is not at all surprising. The papacy is adept at subterfuge, with century upon century dedicated to perfecting its craft. On the surface, the Pope's words appear harmless, even kindly; however, past action can be an excellent predictor of future paths. If your students had more complete knowledge of the Catholic history of Machiavellian political manipulation, treachery, torture, murder, massive persecution of divergent beliefs, defiance of God, pollution of what is Holy, etc. Perhaps they would have come to a different conclusion. It is all to easy to be taken in by a "friendly" conman. It is a different matter when you have listened to the the testimony of his numerous victims, and you are familiar with his modus operandi. If you would like some sources for my statements, try The Great Controversy, or if you would like a more graphic, non SDA, source look at Foxe's Book Of Martyrs: I would advise you to read it on an empty stomach.
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182768
03/14/17 07:43 PM
03/14/17 07:43 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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Methinks ye partake of the kool-aid overmuch. So, now you resort to ad hominem attacks? That is truly sad, and usually an indicator of a lack of valid argument. Dedication is an incredibly knowledgable and wise lady. Nadi, you could learn a lot, if you were willing. Your casual conflation of the Jonestown tragedy and Dedication's accurate summation of the Seventh Day Adventist view regarding papal intent, indicates both a callous disregard for the suffering of others and a belief that Seventh Day Adventists are deluded cultists. This attitude makes me wonder about your motivation for being on this site? It has become painfully obvious that in recent years the North American educational system has been overrun by far left teachers and professors. Are you one of these, come to troll and mock our faith? Nadi is in intriguing handle. Does it refer to the Indian term for the mystical yogic energy pathways between (nadi)chakras, or the Vedic astrological practise of reading Sanskrit etched palm leaves?
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182769
03/14/17 07:50 PM
03/14/17 07:50 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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"For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." Matthew 13:17
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: Nadi]
#182770
03/14/17 07:59 PM
03/14/17 07:59 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024 Supporting Member 2023
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,197
Alberta, Canada
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So I took a transcript of the Pope's homily and handed it out to my high school class of Humanities students. I gave them only the text of the homily, without identifying who said it where. After discussing their feedback regarding what it was talking about I asked them if they thought the author was saying NOT to keep the commandments. NOT A SINGLE STUDENT HAD THAT IDEA. What feedback I did get was that they thought the author was saying that if one focuses only on keeping the commandments this can negatively affect one's Christian growth. Commandment keeping is important, but there are so many more aspects of the Christian life such as remembrance. By the way Nadi, assuming of course that you are not part of the far left agenda promoting plague that infests the teaching profession, why don't you have your humanities students read Foxe's Book of Martyrs then reevaluate the Pope's wise and loving homily?
"...I will not forget you. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."
Isaiah 49:15-16
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#182771
03/14/17 08:29 PM
03/14/17 08:29 PM
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NON-SDA Active Member 2020
Full Member
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
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ProdigalOne, if I have offended you in any way I am truly sorry. This was not my intent. I am, however, disappointed by the tone of the responses. I do not believe this kind of response will lead to meaningful dialogue.
My point of view differs from yours. This forum allows differing views to be expressed without character attacks.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: ProdigalOne]
#182772
03/14/17 10:59 PM
03/14/17 10:59 PM
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Active Member 2019 Died February 12, 2019
2500+ Member
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Before posting the above, I read the text of the Pope's words on five or six different sites operated by different people, mostly non-Adventists. I also watched the Pope's homily twice, once on YouTube and again on a website. It is clear what he said and in what context. Please post your sources. I posted the source I quoted. If you want other sources google them. Oh, but you did already find another source, since you handed a copy of the Pope's homily to your class. Since, it seems that you have already verified that the homily is posted on other sites, your request seems rather disingenuous. Nadi, wheren't you asking source s for the text I supersized? ProdigalOne, maybe you have a hard time following a discussion or there was some level of mis-understanding. I had the impression you were saying that 4 to 5 non-SDA sites had dedication's point of view. So I was looking forward to seeing these sources sites. But maybe I mis-understood also. Nadi, be easy on our dear brother ProdigalOne.
Last edited by Elle; 03/14/17 11:15 PM. Reason: for clarification
Blessings
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Re: Papal ambitions
[Re: dedication]
#182774
03/15/17 04:20 AM
03/15/17 04:20 AM
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OP
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2022
5500+ Member
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,663
Canada
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Let's stay with the subject. I stick to the premise that the goal of the Vatican is to be the spiritual leader of the world. Its a "one world religion" not in dissolving the diverse religions, so much as changing them on the inside to the point where they no longer clash with each other and all harmonize in looking to the papacy as the "great shepherd" over all. Check out the plan as outlined by Jesuit Karl Rahner and his partner Heinrich Fries. They give eight steps. STEP ONE: "The fundamental truths of Christianity, as they are expressed in Holy Scripture, in the Apostles' Creed and in that of Nicaea and Constantinople are binding on all partner churches of the ONE CHURCH TO BE." They elaborate by saying "The community assumes primacy over the individual." p.13 "The Church becomes the object of faith as ecclesia una, sanct, catholica, et apostolica (the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church) The 'I believe in the Church corresponds to the 'I believe in the Holy Spirit.' p21 The church is depicted as a "creature" of the Holy Spirit. The unity they project can only be achieved if it is a community of faith and not one that worries about doctrines or believe systems or personal agendas. The theme throughout the plan is on the community of faith. In this the church takes precedence over the individual — theology can only be done in and by the community, not by the individuals. Thesis I rests on the Creeds which express, in Fries words, "the fundamental truths of Christian faith. Furthermore, the Creed draws attention to the fact that faith is not a private matter. . .the public community of faith itself . . .has its support and basis of existence in the Creed." p. 16 Indeed -- the subject of the ten commandments came up in one of the previous posts. The Catholic church does believe in the ten commandments, BUT, since the church claims to be the "creature" of the Holy Spirit, they think they can adjust the ten commandments, having supposedly received that power through the Holy Spirit. Thus the change from Saturday to Sunday as the day "to remember" they claim is the sign of this authority. And pope John Paul II in his "Dies Domini" (Lord's Day) apostolic letter of May 31, 1998, placed Sunday keeping under the imperative of the ten commandments! And what is more -- he can quote a lot of nice sounding reasons for Sunday keeping from the traditions of the "church fathers". It's all 'good for the community of faith" for family values, etc. Note: The Biblical apostles showed that religion does not consist in rites and ceremonies, creeds and theories. It is not based on tradition and philosophies of men. The one church to be... The whole world (almost) will worship at the wrong shrine. Open your eyes and you will see this is being worked towards.
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