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Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: ProdigalOne] #182930
03/25/17 05:09 PM
03/25/17 05:09 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne


Check out this thread:
Is Spiritual Formation Creeping into the SDA Church? pg-51

It is a long thread, but worth reading.
Here is a small excerpt:

Originally Posted By: Daryl

https://youtu.be/YKeQ0i3fxw4

"I showed the above posted video in church last Sabbath amd discovered that Spiritual Formation had been subtlely presented at our Canadian University College in Alberta, Canada."



Rick H:

"Its coming on strong, our church members stood up against it the Sabbath before. They had brought in the presentation before the church for the 'candidates' for leadership for the coming year, and only those who had gone through the 'spiritual formation' training were included. Well they brought it to a vote in front of the whole church, and the members discerned what was being done, and voted NO! The members stood up and told those up front pushing the 'candidates' that what they were doing was wrong and they would let the conference know what they were trying to do.

But somehow I think these people in control are going to find a way to get by the process clearly laid out in the church manual and impose these 'candidates' without any nomination, without any vote by the church, and without any approval by the church board. I didn't think it was possible but yet here we are."


Edited by Rick H (Sat Jun 14 2014 07:33 PM)

I have read more about Spiritual Formation being made a requirement for church leadership positions, but I cannot recall the source. This Jesuit infiltration is entering the Church so quickly, in so many different places, it is difficult to keep them straight.
As Daryl said, it is happening here in Alberta, also down in Florida where Rick H is located, and jamesofthunder, in the same thread, reports it is in Minneapolis:

"Every single one of the young pastors here in Minneapolis are promoting Spiritual Formation in their own ways."



Here is another quote from Rick H in the Is Spiritual Formation Creeping into the SDA Church? thread:

"...this was a project to help the homeless from our original church and our people were helping but when they saw them organizing it as a Sunday worship service we questioned what they were doing, and the answer was shocking. They said the Sabbath didn't really matter and began to guard against any Adventist literature from reaching the homeless.

Adventist elders and members keeping the truth from others......I cant even begin to try to explain that..."


I have seen this stuff coming in for a long time. I have known of pastors who wouldn't keep SOP books on hand in their churches to give away back in the 90s. They wanted to give away books by authors from other churches, not Ellen White's books such as DofA and StoC. They found those books objectionable. One was a guy I went to academy with....

I just thought maybe you had links to specific instances of forbidding Sabbath to be taught that have been documented by more than one person. It's not that I doubt these things are in the church. I've seen far too much to doubt that. I've had people get angry with me for pointing out that chanting Jesus name to make themselves more like Jesus is a method of self-righteousness. I just like to have documented examples of things whenever possible.

I'm listening to the youtube links you gave me as I write this. They are talking about spiritualism creeping into the church. I wouldn't say spiritualism is creeping into the church. It is flooding the church. A person can see it almost everywhere they look. The One Project is a prime example. Focusing on Jesus without mentioning His teaching? How far out to lunch can people get? How does someone separate Jesus from what He taught? It's impossible for what Jesus taught is who He is.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #183059
04/01/17 02:16 AM
04/01/17 02:16 AM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
And some who claim to believe EGW's writings reject the most plain statements about the Character of God.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #183094
04/03/17 04:18 PM
04/03/17 04:18 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: gary
When will you learn to get some balance to your points of view? Here is a statement from Ellen White that says exactly what I said above.
The book "CD" from which you quoted is compilation. The book "MH" is a book written by Ellen White in her life time. Do you understand the differences? The chapter I quoted from is "Diet and Health". Where is the balance? Using a book of compilations of quotes from various time to various people or a book whose total emphasis was to bring together her thoughts on the best way for healing? I'll take The Ministry of Healing and if you think that is unbalanced, then so be it.

IF you read the book, The Ministry of Healing, you will find that my quote above I quoted 50% of the references to the use of butter. I will add ALL the other references to the use of butter in this book for you: When properly prepared, olives, like nuts, supply the place of butter and flesh meats. The oil, as eaten in the olive, is far preferable to animal oil or fat. It serves as a laxative. Its use will be found beneficial to consumptives, and it is healing to an inflamed, irritated stomach. {MH 298.2}

There, you now have 100% of the quotes on the use of Butter from her book. I hope you can understand the difference between her book on healing and individual quotes from various times and individuals.

To summarize her instruction to the most people for health, she says, "as a rule, it is better to dispense with it [butter] altogether. That is not an unbalanced or narrow-minded view. In fact, to teach otherwise is a rejection of the Spirit of Prophesy.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #183096
04/03/17 10:23 PM
04/03/17 10:23 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Gary, both APL's and your quotes say that it's better not to use butter. Especially 100 some years later.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: APL] #183098
04/03/17 10:41 PM
04/03/17 10:41 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,499
Midland
Originally Posted By: APL
When properly prepared, olives, like nuts, supply the place of butter and flesh meats.
Oh excellent! There it is, "supply the place of". Something Green has a hard time understanding what she means, "supply the place of".

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: kland] #183103
04/04/17 01:12 AM
04/04/17 01:12 AM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
There are times when I really wonder....

Quote:
There is real common sense in dietetic reform. The subject should be studied broadly and deeply, and no one should criticize others because their practice is not, in all things, in harmony with his own. It is impossible to make an unvarying rule to regulate everyone’s habits, and no one should think [320] himself a criterion for all. Not all can eat the same things. Foods that are palatable and wholesome to one person may be distasteful, and even harmful, to another. Some cannot use milk, while others thrive on it. Some persons cannot digest peas and beans; others find them wholesome. For some the coarser grain preparations are good food, while others cannot use them.

Those who live in new countries or in poverty-stricken districts, where fruits and nuts are scarce, should not be urged to exclude milk and eggs from their dietary. It is true that persons in full flesh and in whom the animal passions are strong need to avoid the use of stimulating foods. Especially in families of children who are given to sensual habits, eggs should not be used. But in the case of persons whose blood-making organs are feeble,—especially if other foods to supply the needed elements cannot be obtained,—milk and eggs should not be wholly discarded. Great care should be taken, however, to obtain milk from healthy cows, and eggs from healthy fowls, that are well fed and well cared for; and the eggs should be so cooked as to be most easily digested.

The diet reform should be progressive. As disease in animals increases, the use of milk and eggs will become more and more unsafe. An effort should be made to supply their [321] place with other things that are healthful and inexpensive. The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. Ministry of Healing pp. 319-321



Oh, look. From the Ministry of Healing, the same principles I quoted from Counsels on Diets and Foods. Imagine that. Ellen White agreeing with herself all throughout her writings.

Do you even come close to understanding that the Conflict of the Ages series is mostly compiled from previous things she had written? You will find entire paragraphs lifted from letters, from articles written for SDA magazines and tracts, from manuscripts previously written.

Do you not understand that Ministry of Healing was written the same way? She didn't just sit down and write an entire book on subjects she had not previously had anything to say. She used a lot of material she had previously written but was not commonly known about. Thus the purpose of the book. To gather into a single entity what she had written about in various other publications, letters and manuscripts. The only difference between MH and CDF is who did the compiling, and what all is included. When the Estate compiled materials they quoted from where they got them. She did not, as she was the original author.

To say an entire paragraph is somehow not inspired as much as another paragraph just because of the source is crossing a line that should never be crossed. It is saying there are different levels of inspiration in her writings just because of where it is found. That, is truly rejecting the the writings of Ellen White. All those paragraphs from CDF came out of complete articles, letters, manuscripts, etc.... I've researched a lot of these things and I have yet to find one taken out of the context in which it was originally written.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #183104
04/04/17 02:44 AM
04/04/17 02:44 AM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: gary
The only difference between MH and CDF is who did the compiling
BINGO! Do you call EGW narrow minded when she put together MH is 1905? Why do you think so many prior writings were left out of The Ministry of Healing? Does she have the same unbalanced view when she wrote that it should be a rule to dispense with butter all together? Is she unbalanced in her view that ALL should be taught to cook without milk and eggs? You can eat what ever you want. But I will teach others to dispense with all animal products as far as possible and that is indeed following what the Spirit of Prophecy teaches us to do.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: APL] #183106
04/04/17 06:43 PM
04/04/17 06:43 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: gary
The only difference between MH and CDF is who did the compiling
BINGO! Do you call EGW narrow minded when she put together MH is 1905? Why do you think so many prior writings were left out of The Ministry of Healing? Does she have the same unbalanced view when she wrote that it should be a rule to dispense with butter all together?
Quote:
Is she unbalanced in her view that ALL should be taught to cook without milk and eggs?
You can eat what ever you want. But I will teach others to dispense with all animal products as far as possible and that is indeed following what the Spirit of Prophecy teaches us to do.


Do you actually understand what you read? In the quote I gave you from MH she didn't say ALL. She gave exceptions.

Ellen White's view is not the one that is unbalanced. It is your view that is unbalanced. You take small portions of what she wrote and then try to make out that only what you latch onto is all she ever said on a subject.

Just to repeat myself because you seem to have reading comprehension problems, Ellen White in MH said the reason for avoiding milk, eggs, cream, and butter are because of the risk that they may come from diseased animals. She said at the same quote that they have nutrients that are needed for health, and that only as someone learns to cook healthfully without them should they be discarded as food.

Surprise you to know that Ellen White owned a milk cow and and as late as November of 1905 was still using cream on her potatoes?
Quote:
The past night I have slept better than I have for years. I have no pain. My mind is clear, and I can do much work if I have a chance. I am now seventy-eight years old. I am grateful to my heavenly Father that I am able to do my writing. My appetite is excellent. We have been favored with Brother and Sister King to be our helpers. Both are very useful workers. Sister King is my cook, and the food comes on to the table in an appetizing shape for my workers. This is what we need: simple food prepared in a simple, wholesome, and relishable manner. We have no butter and no meat on our table. We do not think fried potatoes are healthful, for there is more or less grease or butter used in preparing them. Good baked or boiled potatoes served up with cream and a sprinkling of salt are the most healthful. The remnants of Irish and sweet potatoes are prepared with a little cream and salt and rebaked, and not fried; they are excellent. I have had a good appetite and relish my food and am perfectly satisfied with the portion which I select....


That quote comes from the beginning of the 1st paragraph of letter #322 written in November of 1905. Notice that she is using cream, which comes from milk. She had not abandoned all use of milk even at that time, and from elsewhere we can understand why. She owned her own milk cows, so she trusted that the animals her dairy products came from were still healthy.

You would accuse her of wrongdoing because she used cream. All it shows is that you do not seem to comprehend what you read. She was following her own advice, which was, do not trust the commercial dairy and egg products because of the risk of them coming from diseased animals.

Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: Charity] #183108
04/04/17 07:14 PM
04/04/17 07:14 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2}

"people everywhere" - - That is what I do. How about you? Is that a narrow viewpoint?

How many people know where the milk and eggs come from? Do you trust the milk and eggs you find in the stores? Again: The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2} Nothing narrow about that. All of course are free to choose what they eat for themselves. You are free to do as you please.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold, Part 1 [Re: APL] #183109
04/04/17 09:19 PM
04/04/17 09:19 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: APL
The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2}

"people everywhere" - - That is what I do. How about you? Is that a narrow viewpoint?

How many people know where the milk and eggs come from? Do you trust the milk and eggs you find in the stores? Again: The people everywhere should be taught how to cook without milk and eggs, so far as possible, and yet have their food wholesome and palatable. {MH 320.2} Nothing narrow about that. All of course are free to choose what they eat for themselves. You are free to do as you please.


What does the phrase, that comes from your quote, "so far as possible" mean?

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