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Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192288
04/15/20 08:04 PM
04/15/20 08:04 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Is the pandemic HINDERING the spread of the three angel's message?

Was it going forth while people warmed the pews in their churches every Sabbath, with any greater strength, then it is now, when people tune in to services via computer, or other electronic devises?

This current crises is a BIG wake up call!
We still have freedoms -- though we are getting a frightening glimpse of how those freedoms could all disappear suddenly.

Right now -- there is NO enforced threat against proclaiming the gospel and the three angels messages yet.
If we are wise we will arose and spread the message, while there is still freedom to do so.


Who knows -- this crises may be the means to get the message out quicker--
as individual churches get into technology that will finally reach the masses who are also "awakened" to more serious thought, thus becoming more responsive during this crises.
If and when the "lock-down" lifts, will we realize it's just a lull in the coming storm, and really get to work proclaiming the message? Will we be awake and eager to work harder to reach others?
People are praying that we will have a "little more time"

Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: dedication] #192289
04/16/20 06:42 AM
04/16/20 06:42 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by dedication
Is the pandemic HINDERING the spread of the three angel's message?

Was it going forth while people warmed the pews in their churches every Sabbath, with any greater strength, then it is now, when people tune in to services via computer, or other electronic devises?

This current crises is a BIG wake up call!
We still have freedoms -- though we are getting a frightening glimpse of how those freedoms could all disappear suddenly.

Right now -- there is NO enforced threat against proclaiming the gospel and the three angels messages yet.
If we are wise we will arose and spread the message, while there is still freedom to do so.


Who knows -- this crises may be the means to get the message out quicker--
as individual churches get into technology that will finally reach the masses who are also "awakened" to more serious thought, thus becoming more responsive during this crises.
If and when the "lock-down" lifts, will we realize it's just a lull in the coming storm, and really get to work proclaiming the message? Will we be awake and eager to work harder to reach others?
People are praying that we will have a "little more time"


It is indeed a warning, if we choose to accept it as such. May we wake to God?s call to His slumbering church in time to utilize the fading light of day, for the night is approaching, swiftly! "The final moves will be rapid ones! There is almost no time!


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192291
04/16/20 08:40 AM
04/16/20 08:40 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Most of us have seen reports of the abuses of power taking place across the globe in the USA, Canada, Britain, France, Panama, etc,: men being chased by police for the "crime" of jogging on an empty beach or paddling a boat alone and far from shore, couples being threatened for walking their dog in a deserted park, a man being taken away in handcuffs for standing outside of his own home, another man handcuffed and placed in a police cruiser for taking his young children to a vacant playground, people being pulled over and told they are not allowed to travel alone in their car, frightened people informing on their neighbours for celebrating a birthday or wedding.

Worshipping God together, during troublous times, we are told is "not an essential service". Simultaneously, crowds gather at Costco and Walmart. The dollar store on the corner is open. Liquor stores and cannabis shops are busily collecting tax money for the government coffers!

First, we are told that the Wuhan Flu is not a real threat and we should frequent our local china town to combat "racism"; next, we are warned that the virus is killing people by the tens of thousands and will rapidly spread to tens of millions, and it is not safe to go to work, visit our families, worship God in our churches, or even leave our homes! We are shown interviews with doctors and nurses who claim they are being overwhelmed by the number of sick and dying; the following day, video footage from private citizens show these same hospitals almost empty, emergency tents set up for testing and triage are completely deserted.

If you have any doubt that this "pandemic" is a spiritual attack by Satan ask yourself, is God the author of confusion? Does the Good Shepherd sew fear, even panic, among His flock? No, this is the work of the thief who comes to steal and destroy, the roaring lion dividing and seeking whom he may devour. Sunday laws are already being enforced in some nations.

Is the true illness some ambiguous flu from Asia? Or, is there something deeper, something much darker at work? What does the SOP tell us is the source of the vast majority of illnesses: stress, confusion, fear, separation from God! This is the path the world and the church are being herded towards. Certainly, the 3 Angels Messages can and should be spread far and wide via technology. Does this mean we should comply with the fearful decree of the Enemy, manifested through earthly authority, and forsake the physical gathering together for worship and fellowship?

However hyped or downplayed; however, serious or spurious you believe the Wuhan Flu to be, please open your eyes and see that we are being prepared for something...

"Sickness of the mind prevails everywhere. Nine tenths of the diseases from which men suffer have their foundation here." 5T 443.4


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192319
04/20/20 11:17 AM
04/20/20 11:17 AM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
How do we compare this with what Ellen White wrote about not being defiant of authorities and mowing our lawns on sundays?


Could the idea of keeping people in their homes indeed for our "safety" as they test the G5 frequencies? Supposedly it penetrates buildings, but maybe in the open it causes more harm and they need time to test and tune it so it doesn't harm so much? Anyone see new broadcasting equipment/towers going up?

Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192320
04/20/20 11:33 AM
04/20/20 11:33 AM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted by ProdigalOne
Watch this short video. If only such faith was manifest in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. How many hearts and minds would be inspired to consider the Sabbath?
While we huddle "securely" before our computer screens, consider: is our fear of pestilence, our fear of government, hindering the delivery of the
Three Angels Message? https://youtu.be/Tp4fKm9ijCw

You know, it's a good thing I'm a christian and..... For I have bad thoughts come to my mind.
What about those who aren't and let their thoughts go into action? I'm afraid if they keep extending this experiment, people are going to break.

Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192322
04/22/20 08:05 PM
04/22/20 08:05 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Canada
There are some really weird things being done.

So far I can still walk around the block for exercise in the fresh air, without fear of being fined.

But it seems there are some who are trying to turn this covid-19 into introducing our countries into police states.

For example: A $700 fine to young teenager who was by himself (no distancing violations, no grouping violation) who was throwing his own basketball through some hoops in a neighborhood park.

People get fined for even sitting ALONE on a park or roadside bench. Don't take your kids to a play park -- you'll get fined. Don't even give food to the homeless -- you'll get fined.

Then there's the matter of urging people to REPORT to authorities anyone who is innocently enjoying some time outside and maybe getting a little too close to another person or touching something.
Starting to sound like something we read in history in countries that lost their freedom.

Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: dedication] #192326
04/23/20 03:08 AM
04/23/20 03:08 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,186
Alberta, Canada
The weirdest thing I have heard being "justified" by the Wuhan Flu pandemic is what is occurring right now in Jamaica. Prime Minister Andrew Holness is calling for personal ID and bank accounts for every citizen in order to allow the country to quickly transition to a completely digital economy (a cashless economy enabling government control of all Buying And Selling). Holness is also planning to end the multiple days of weekly lockdown and have everything shutdown on only Sundays. This will force Monday - Friday workers to do their shopping on Saturdays (government enforced Mark Of The Beast)!

The weirdest thing about these disturbing events is that Prime Minister Andrew Holness is a graduate of Andrews University, former President of the Jamaican Conference, and a member of the Jamaican religious majority, Seventh Day Adventists...

You may want to watch this informative video: https://youtu.be/DhghpqChENI


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192330
04/23/20 04:44 PM
04/23/20 04:44 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
I also ask here, as I did in another thread.

How do you know that the PM of Jamaica is actually a SDA???

Have you fact checked this???

Do you have any links, other than a You Tube video, that shows that the PM of Jamaica is a SDA???


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: ProdigalOne] #192332
04/23/20 06:47 PM
04/23/20 06:47 PM
APL  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
no where to I see the violation of God's law in the video. He is calling Ted Wilson a Jesuit. I won't argue with him as MOST SDA's support Catholic beliefs! Right Daryl/Dedication/ProgdigalOne/Green/...


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Should Churches Close Because Of Pandemic? [Re: Daryl] #192333
04/23/20 10:35 PM
04/23/20 10:35 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by Daryl
I also ask here, as I did in another thread.

How do you know that the PM of Jamaica is actually a SDA???

Have you face checked this???

Do you have any links, other than a You Tube video, that shows that the PM of Jamaica is a SDA???

Facts like this are often publicly available. Consider the following evidences:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Holness

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Andrew Holness is a graduate of St. Catherine High School and of the University of the West Indies, where he pursued a Bachelor of Science in Management Studies and a Master of Science in Development Studies.[4] In 1997 he married Juliet Holness (n?e Landell), an accountant, whom he had met as a student at St. Catherine High School during the 1980s.[5][6] The couple have two children, Adam and Matthew[7]

Holness served as Executive Director at the Voluntary Organization for Uplifting Children from 1994 to 1996 and then joined the Premium Group of Companies, acting as a special assistant to Edward Seaga.

He is a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.[8]


Following the reference there leads to this news article:

https://dominicanewsonline.com/news/homepage/news/politics/andrew-holness-sworn-in-as-jamaica%e2%80%99s-new-prime-minister/

Quote
Andrew Michael Holness, a Seventh Day Adventist by faith, was ?sworn-in? by affirmation on Sunday as the Jamaica?s ninth Prime Minister.

In a ceremony at King?s House on Sunday afternoon, the new prime minister did not swear on the bible as is the custom because of his faith. Rather, as is allowed under the constitution, Holness ?declared and affirmed? due allegiance to Jamaica and his intention to carry out his duties as Prime Minister of Jamaica.

He takes over from Bruce Golding who handed in his resignation to the Governor General earlier Sunday afternoon. Holness 39, is the youngest Prime Minister of Jamaica.


And then there is this, apparently published by the Jamaica Observer on the day of his inauguration (the bolded paragraph is interesting):

https://web.archive.org/web/20120407064018/http://m.jamaicaobserver.com/mobile/columns/When-Andrew-Holness-becomes-prime-minister-today---_9979830

Quote
WHEN Andrew Holness becomes prime minister today he will not have the usual 'honeymoon' traditionally given to political leaders taking over the reins of government for the first time.

Starting with the swearing-in and inaugural address, his every move, word and deed will be closely examined even as we congratulate and extend best wishes to our ninth and youngest-ever prime minister.

Some of the attention is a consequence of the evolving style of political communication in the information age ? an age when citizens demand greater transparency and accountability from leaders and have the technological means to keep tabs on them. It is the age when people care less about the authority that derives from high office and more about what office-holders do with that authority. Honorific titles and vestments do not intimidate people anymore.

But Mr Holness will also be scrutinised because of the unique circumstances that brought him to power; because voters know little of the man and his mettle; because of the enormity of the economic and social problems facing the country; and because of the cynicism of many in the generation of which he is a part.

Bruce Golding, who today officially ends his tenure as prime minister, was forced out by the scandal over his handling of the US request for the extradition of Christopher 'Dudus' Coke, the now self-confessed gangster.

With polls showing Mr Holness as the man best positioned to beat Portia Simpson Miller and the People's National Party, other aspirants for leadership of the governing Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) parked their ambitions to give the party its best chance of winning a second term.

So, in a real sense his elevation to the top job is not a reward for performance but an opportunity to confirm that he has what it takes to lead successfully this complex and contrarian country of ours.

Unless he confounds reason and common sense, Mr Holness will shortly (before year end) call a general election to allow voters to decide whether he is worthy of the trust that his parliamentary colleagues have shown in him.

In making that choice, voters will need to know more about the new leader and where he stands on the crucial issues. Can he deliver the jobs that Mr Golding didn't? Can he deliver good governance? Can he build consensus among stakeholders with different and conflicting interests?

We know that Mr Holness, like PNP leader Simpson Miller, believes that he is the elect of the Almighty who has called him to this office. They, like all of us, have every right to faith and religious beliefs. But I am scared of political leaders who see themselves as being specially called to high service, rather than merely offering themselves for a temporary job circumscribed by the law and the constitution.

Baptism in the fire of tribal politics

The biographical outline is fairly well-known: Andrew Holness was born on July 22, 1972. He attended St Catherine High School and later graduated from the University of the West Indies; he's married and has two children.

After serving as special assistant to former Prime Minister Edward Seaga in his private business, Mr Holness had his first political outing in West Central St Andrew against the PNP's Dr Warren Blake in the December 18, 1997 general election.

That contest would expose the worst features of tribal and garrison politics, with accusations and counter-accusations of fraud, voting irregularities, violence and intimidation.

Indeed, the seat was not settled until mid-1998: First, Mr Holness was declared the winner on the basis that he had secured a majority of the votes cast; next, the court upheld a request for voiding the poll. In a new poll on March 26, 1998 the PNP candidate was declared the winner; but this went back to the Constituted Authority on appeal which ordered a third poll. This took place June 30, 1998, leading to Mr Holness finally taking his seat in Gordon House.

Since then, he has retained the seat by more comfortable margins, but he has reportedly lost ground to PNP standard-bearer Patrick Roberts and is eying the safe JLP garrison constituency of West Kingston.

His choice of where to run could be the first major indicator of whether Mr Holness represents the best hope of a new and different politics ? so crucial to re-engaging the young and the disaffected to civic life ? or whether he is a youthful version of old politics.

Frankly, I hope he remains in West Central, a competitive seat in which he has been able to prevail on the basis of what he brings to the table and what people see in him ? despite the fact that the constituency suffers from the deprivations and neglect that characterise so many inner-city communities, regardless of voting preference.

Going to West Kingston would signal that the best politics is the safety of the garrison where there is no political competition. Worse, he could be trapped in the same vortex that caused Mr Golding's sad and untimely undoing.

Managerial capability

Voters will also want to be satisfied that the new prime minister ? indeed anyone who aspires to lead Jamaica today ? understands the policy implications of the technologically connected world of the 21st century; the global financial crisis that is likely to get worse before it gets better; the shifting power from Euro-American dominance to Asia and how best to secure Jamaica's interest in this new paradigm.

He will also have to demonstrate his managerial competence and decision-making skills. As minister of education for the past four years, he has done a creditable job, though he has not distinguished himself in terms of improved educational outcomes.

On the plus side, Mr Holness embraced the education transformation programme of 2004. This is creditable in a country where ministers and governments are notorious for throwing out everything they find on taking office rather than having the discernment to build on what is good, improve on what needs fixing and discard only that which is worthless.

Strapped for cash like his predecessor, he has not been able to implement the big reforms but has made some progress on some non-cash items like establishing the teacher council to certify practitioners and the national inspectorate to monitor school performance.

But Mr Holness's relationship with the Jamaica Teachers' Association (JTA) was less than stellar as indicated by a troubling managerial style.

His direct intervention against teachers protesting against the appointment of a new principal for Balaclava High; his insistence on retaining Mr Alphansus Davis in the conflicting posts of personal adviser and chairman of the Teachers' Services Commission, and his singling out of three or four schools as 'failing' are examples of wasteful use of political capital and managerial time.

I have no doubt that Mr Holness wanted ? and still wants ? the best for education as the surest means of providing opportunity for all our children to achieve their full potential. He shares that with previous ministers of education. And I have no doubt the JTA is a tough trade union that will resist stoutly when the interests of its members are perceived to be under threat.

Fast-forward to the faltering agreement with the International Monetary Fund which must be addressed quickly to put public finances back into some semblance of order.

Specifically, the Government will have to show that it has the will and the way to reduce the public sector wage bill to agreed levels; that it has enough surplus (after expenses) to reduce the stock of debt by paying down on the principal; that it will reform the tax system to spread the burden equitably while increasing revenue by drastically reducing waivers to some taxpayers.

These are tough measures that are unlikely to be taken until after the next election. In the weeks ahead voters will have to decide which leader/party is better equipped to take and implement the right decisions.

kcr@cwjamaica.com


And then there's the Adventist Today article published here:

https://atoday.org/new-prime-minister-of-jamaica-is-an-adventist-andrew-holness/

Originally Posted by aToday
March 4, 2016: After the general election last week gave the Jamaica Labour Party 33 of the 63 seats in parliament, the Hon. Andrew Holness was sworn in yesterday as prime minister of the Caribbean nation. He grew up in the Spanish Town Seventh-day Adventist Church and on the Sabbath following the vote attended the Andrew?s Memorial Seventh-day Adventist Church with his wife Juliet, who was also elected to parliament; the first time that spouses have served together in the national legislature.

Holness is 43 years of age and previously served as prime minister in 2011-2012. Prior to that he served as education minister of Jamaica. When he was first sworn in as prime minister on October 23, 2011, he was the youngest person to ever hold the top government position in the country.

The Labour Party in Jamaica is a misnomer in terms of most political parties with that label among Commonwealth nations, sources told Adventist Today. It is the more market-oriented, while the People?s National Party is more socialist. Holness has a background in business with a bachelor?s degree in management and a master?s degree in development from the University of the West Indies.

Holness was a protege of former prime minister Edward Seaga, serving as his special assistant from 1996 to 2000. He first became a member of parliament at age 25 and represents a new generation of leadership in Jamaica.

Adventists currently hold both of the top leadership positions in Jamaica. The Governor General, Sir Patrick Allen, is also an Adventist and a graduate of Andrews University. He was the union conference president in Jamaica, the national leader of the Adventist denomination, when he was appointed by Queen Elizabeth II. He resigned from denominational employment to take office but continues to be an Adventist minister.

Holness did not attend Adventist schools or work for the denomination. He often refers to his working class background and describes himself as pro-business and pro-people. He has said in public speeches, ?I love the poor but I hate poverty.?

According to U.S. State Department information, Adventists constitute the second largest denomination in Jamaica with about 11 percent of the population in the most recent census. A Pentecostal denomination, the Church of God of Prophecy has about a quarter of the population. A number of members of parliament are Adventists.


What I have been unable to confirm is that he ever attended Andrews University. According to the article above, it appears he was never a student in an Adventist school.

Nor have I any knowledge as of yet that his decisions regarding Sunday practices were supported by Elder Ted Wilson. It seems quite possible that the truth has been stretched a bit. Until this is supported by something factual, I think I will relegate it to the "rumor" category.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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