Ok, here's my dilema. I am getting ready to take over the Senior Pastor's position in a month, once my current Pastor is sent to Seminary. I was not raised in the Adventist faith. So, for lack of better words I am very well versed in secular activities.

I am an avid sports guy. I enjoy and have always enjoyed all sports. And I don't want this to become a "Sports are wrong" thread. But as a young Pastor I feel that my ministry is focused on youth in our community. I am an active member of FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) which is involved in area schools. But my dilema is this:

Is it wrong to volunteer as the high school football teams Chaplin? I would not be there only for games, but double as an assistant coach. but games are friday nights, as most know. I am not looking at this as a loop hole for me to attend Football games. But rather as a situation to have an influence on young Men's lives.

Is ministring in this manner acceptable, even on Sabbath?

Hi Joe,
I appreciate your inquiry. It is not everyone's practice to check in with God first before acting, but doubtless it should be.

You appear to have distinct elements to your inquiry. One is sabbath-keeping, and one is competitive sports in general. Like yourself, I was not raised an Adventist. I grew up in the secular world participating in and enjoying competitive sports.

Isaiah 58:13, 14 indicates that we are not to do our own pleasure on the Sabbath. This would seem to flatly rule out your participation in any activity such as you mention during the Sabbath hours.

Of considerably greater moment, however, is the question of whether competitive sports, as so often claimed, build virtue and character. Let me suggest some resources, since our church has just recently completed a year-long study in this area.

First, to get the history on this, here is a short sermon:

http://www.greatcontroversy.org/documents/sermons/sermons-kir/kir-jcsetp.php3

Here is a one page timeline on the history of sports:

http://www.greatcontroversy.org/pdf/cstimeline.pdf

Here is the end produce of our study, our paper titled "COMPETITIVE INTER-SCHOOL SPORTS REVISITED: Study, Findings, Calls, Resources":

http://www.mentonesda.org/pdf/sports.pdf

This document includes a thorough compilation of materials from the Bible and Ellen G. White writings on the topic.

Please be aware, some fo the above URLs might break if the link wraps to the next line, so to make them work you may have to type them in manually. I think the history materials would be a real help to you in sorting out the questions you have, as well as some of the material in the paper.

May God lead you in this matter. I hope that after you have explored it further you will share your reaction to the study materials I have here pointed out. Some of the results may not be to yours or my immediate liking, but heaven will help us to find and follow God's will. Only then will we be truly enabled to minister to our youth in a way that will lead them--actually lead them--closer to Jesus our Lord.

Pr .Larry Kirkpatrick

Hi Joe,

Im neither pastor nor football coach so this might be irrelevant, a question that Id ask is if taking on this coach chaplain job would interfear with your duties as senior pastor? There might be times when sabbath/friday night would be the most appropriate time for things such as vespers or prayermeetings that you might be expected to attend as pastor.

Just a thought...

/Thomas

-Larry-
I have yet to read the links you have posted, I'm at work and kinda pressed for time. But the Isa. text is one that I have returned to time and time again. But I also enjoy hiking through the woods, should I not do this aswell since it is pleasurable to me? I also see where Jesus himself condemned the Pharisees for impossing legalistic properties to the Sabbath, He said, "Sabbath was made for man not, man for Sabbath."

We know that none of God's laws are burdensum. And to take the Isa. text word for word, it seems that we shouldn't even laugh on the Sabbath, because laughing is pleasurable. Please don't get me wrong and think that I am trying to dissolve the Sabbath, and state that we are to worship like the rest of the world. But as ministers we are working on the Sabbath, what is the difference of being a Chaplin and ministering to young men on friday nights?

-västergötland-

That has no bearing on my dicision. our Prayer meeting is Wednesday night, and our vespers are at the close of Sabbath not the beginning.

i read most of your links, the last one was 104 pages so needless to say i didn't read all of it. Your sermon was very thorough and interesting. However I am about to give a disclaimer:

"I in all ways support and believe the that Bible is eternal, spoken word of God."

But do you think that every one is still relevant to today, or has somethings adapted with the change of time?
What about E.G. White, could some of her writtings be out dated?

Mrs. White also, said that we should not ride bicycles. Have you rode a bike lately, I have, am I a sinner now because of it? I surely hope not.

I know that your sermon flat out said that "Sports is not a right character builder."
But I beg to differ. Sports teaches discipline to a secular world with no role models. Sports teaches hard work to a more than lazy world. Sports are sometimes the only structure that young men and women have.

I staunchly disagree that competive sports are bad or evil. If, Lord forbid you got in a car accident, and you took the person to court. One will win and one will lose. So your reasoning of a zero-sum is not only personified in Sports. That means that Courts are bad or evil.

This is an honest question. Do you beleive that a Competive Athlete can be a Christian?

"What about E.G. White, could some of her writtings be out dated?"

How about this for a question: What about the Bible, could some of the Bible writings be out dated?

yes some of its laws and regulations are outdated. some its festivals are no longer kept. some of the storys told had much more meaning an influence on the people of that time than they do to the average person of today

The bicycle is a good example of EGW counsel that is outdated. Most of us are able to see the principle involved in her counsel and see that in her day, spending the equivalent of a year's wages, or more, on an item of limited utility, essentially a toy, was bad stewardship of what God had entrusted people with. Since that time, the utility of the bicycle as a viable means of legitimate transportation and a means of much needed excercise combined with the substantial reduction in cost relative to our current income would suggest that the principle as applied to bicycles is decidedly a far less urgent problem to worry over. However, in an age of house and car envy and epidemic and unrestrained consumerism, the principle is all the more urgent and needful of emphasis in an updated and contemporary way. People today routinely purchase homes and cars way beyond their means and realistic needs, and feel they "must have" the latest and greatest electronic gizmos and gadgets. I am confident that if EGW were alive today her counsel would hardly notice bicycles and would focus on a multitude of other things we tend to be willing to spend a small fortune to have, for much the same reason Americans in the late 19th century exhausted their savings to get a bicycle.

In terms of outdated Biblical ideas, the books of Moses are full of laws and regulations that have no relevance today at all. Even the Ten Commandments reflect the times and have specific points with little relevance today. For example, when was the last time you had a problem of gazing over the fence with an envious greedy eye toward your neighbor's donkey? I for one can with some confidence say that that is at least one point of God's law which I do not recall ever violating! And I have not recently carved a piece of wood into an idol to worship. Not much relevance to my life right now... unless I look to eternal principles involved.

This brings home the point I would like to make. We foster much confusion by binding the specifics of counsel and Biblical passages to a need to obey them in very literal, letter of the law, way, without considering the principle behind them. The letter of the law is seldom easily adaptable to changing circumstances. But principles are infinitely adaptable to constantly changing circumstances. The specific laws, Biblical directives and specific counsels of EGW especially as directed a specific individuals and situations uniquely 19th century must be carefully considered to find the underlying principle in order to be applied prudently to our times and circumstances. That is not always easy or comfortable.

And something as deeply cherished among Adventist, as it was among the Jews of Jesus' day, as the Sabbath is a prime example of cumulative efforts to pile up the Sabbath rules accumulated over the span of earth's history to dictate what our Sabbath behaviour should or should not be. The principles tend to be given short shrift in favor of very specific rules dating back to ancient times and circumstances.

Tom

[ April 16, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Tom Wetmore ]

so tom, what is your view on current Sabbath laws?

What is your take on the situation described at the first of this thread? Is being a chaplin for a high school football team on fridays breaking Sabbath?

Just for the record I totally agree with your take on change of laws according to the times we live. But the underlying principle is what matters.

-Pastor Larry-

Please let me get the point of reasoning in my head as to why sports are bad. I beleive your sermons said, because you look for an opponents weakness and try to exploit it, and you wait for your opponent to make a misstake, or misstep, and then capitolize on it.

In those words it truely seems like the least humble thing to do. But what about Chess or checkers? Do you not do the very same thing. Are those games evil aswell?

really if you think about it, anything that has a winner or loser is that way, all board games, court hearings or children racing bikes down the road.

I think that this is one area that Adventist are hurting. Not sports, but the areas that seem like double standards. Its ok to have a court hearing and point out flaws of the others case. its ok to play chess, but its not ok to play baseball or basketball in the same manner?

its a double standard. we can't pick and chose what we like, and condemn the things we don't even though they are done with the same priciple and say that is ok. Not that we need to change everything but sometimes we get too legalistic over things that are not solid truth but rather opinions.