Lobo, I'm glad we agree. And you ask a very interesting question about other order of beings God has created and the 10 commandments. I'm not sure how it applies to this study though. But I'll attempt an answer.

I agree with Sister White that the law of God was reworded and especially articulated to meet man in his fallen condition. Before the fall the law of God was simple. Jesus said:

Matthew
22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I don't think Satan broke the 10 commandments in heaven, but I do believe he broke the basic principle upon which they are founded - love.

I like the way Sister White worded these thoughts in the following quotes. There's quite a few of them and I hope you don't get tired and decide not to read all of them.

1-17 (Neh. 9:6-15). Father by Side of Son in Giving Law.--When the law was spoken, the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth, stood by the side of His Son, enshrouded in the fire and the smoke on the mount. It was not here that the law was first given; but it was proclaimed, that the children of Israel, whose ideas had become confused in their association with idolaters in Egypt, might be reminded of its terms, and understand what constitutes the true worship of Jehovah (ST Oct. 15, 1896). {1BC 1103.13}

Adam and Eve Knew the Law.--Adam and Eve, at their creation, had a knowledge of the law of God. It was printed on their hearts, and they understood its claims upon them (MS 99, 1902). {1BC 1104.1}

The law of God existed before man was created. It was adapted to the condition of holy beings; even angels were governed by it. After the fall, the principles of righteousness were unchanged. Nothing was taken from the law; not one of its holy precepts could be improved. And as it has existed from the beginning, so will it continue to exist throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. "Concerning thy testimonies," says the psalmist, "I have known of old that thou hast founded them forever (ST April 15, 1886). {1BC 1104.2}

Law Suited to Holy Order of Beings.--The Sabbath of the fourth commandment was instituted in Eden. After God had made the world, and created man upon the earth, He made the Sabbath for man. After Adam's sin and fall nothing was taken from the law of God. The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and where of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state (3SG 295). {1BC 1104.3}

Worded to Meet Fallen Intelligences.--The law of Jehovah dating back to creation, was comprised in the two great principles, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. This is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." These two great principles embrace the first four commandments, showing the duty of man to God, and the last six, showing the duty of man to his fellowman. The principles were more explicitly stated to man after the fall, and worded to meet the case of fallen intelligences. This was necessary in consequence of the minds of men being blinded by transgression (ST April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.4}

The law of God existed before the creation of man or else Adam could not have sinned. After the transgression of Adam the principles of the law were not changed, but were definitely arranged and expressed to meet man in his fallen condition. Christ, in counsel with His Father, instituted the system of sacrificial offerings; that death, instead of being immediately visited upon the transgressor, should be transferred to a victim which should prefigure the great and perfect offering of the son of God (Ibid., March 14, 1878). {1BC 1104.5}

Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue.--In consequence of continual transgression, the moral law was repeated in awful grandeur from Sinai. Christ gave to Moses religious precepts which were to govern everyday life. These statutes were explicitly given to guard the ten commandments. They were not shadowy types to pass away with the death of Christ. They were to be binding upon men in every age as long as time should last. These commands were enforced by the power of the moral law, and they clearly and definitely explained that law (Ibid., April 15, 1875). {1BC 1104.6}

(Isa. 58:13, 14). Every Specification Is God's Character.--The God of heaven has placed a benediction upon them that keep the commandments of God. Shall we stand as a peculiar people of God, or shall we trample upon the law of God and say it is not binding? God might just as well have abolished Himself. In the law every specification is the character of the infinite God (MS 12, 1894). {1BC 1104.7}

Law Denounces Slightest Sin.--God has given His law for the regulation of the conduct of nations, of families, and of individuals. There is not one worker of wickedness, though his act be the lightest and the most secret, that escapes the denunciation of that law (MS 58, 1897). {1BC 1104.8}

Holiness Made Known.--Our duty to obey this law is to be the burden of this last message of mercy to the world. God's law is not a new thing. It is not holiness created, but holiness made known. It is a code of principles expressing mercy, goodness, and love. It presents to fallen humanity the character of God, and states plainly the whole duty of man (MS 88, 1897). {1BC 1104.9}

(John 14:15). Ten Commandments--Ten Promises.--The ten commandments, Thou shalt, and Thou shalt not, are ten promises, assured to us if we render obedience to the law governing the universe. "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Here is the sum and substance of the law of God. The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined (MS 41, 1896). {1BC 1105.1}

The ten holy precepts spoken by Christ upon Sinai's mount were the revelation of the character of God, and made known to the world the fact that He had jurisdiction over the whole human heritage. That law of ten precepts of the greatest love that can be presented to man is the voice of God from heaven speaking to the soul in promise, "This do, and you will not come under the dominion and control of Satan." There is not a negative in that law, although it may appear thus. It is DO, and Live (Letter 89, 1898). {1BC 1105.2}

Desire of Ages
But turning from all lesser representations, we behold God in Jesus. Looking unto Jesus we see that it is the glory of our God to give. "I do nothing of Myself," said Christ; "the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father." "I seek not Mine own glory," but the glory of Him that sent Me. John 8:28; 6:57; 8:50; 7:18. In these words is set forth the great principle which is the law of life for the universe. All things Christ received from God, but He took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all. And thus through Christ the circuit of beneficence is complete, representing the character of the great Giver, the law of life. {DA 21.2}

In heaven itself this law was broken. Sin originated in self-seeking. Lucifer, the covering cherub, desired to be first in heaven. He sought to gain control of heavenly beings, to draw them away from their Creator, and to win their homage to himself. Therefore he misrepresented God, attributing to Him the desire for self-exaltation. With his own evil characteristics he sought to invest the loving Creator. Thus he deceived angels. Thus he deceived men. He led them to doubt the word of God, and to distrust His goodness. Because God is a God of justice and terrible majesty, Satan caused them to look upon Him as severe and unforgiving. Thus he drew men to join him in rebellion against God, and the night of woe settled down upon the world. {DA 21.3}

The earth was dark through misapprehension of God. That the gloomy shadows might be lightened, that the world might be brought back to God, Satan's deceptive power was to be broken. This could not be done by force. The exercise of force is contrary to the principles of God's government; He desires only the service of love; and love cannot be commanded; it cannot be won by force or authority. Only by love is love awakened. To know God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to the character of Satan. This work only one Being in all the universe could do. Only He who knew the height and depth of the love of God could make it known. Upon the world's dark night the Sun of Righteousness must rise, "with healing in His wings." Mal. 4:2. {DA 22.1}

Great Controversy
All heaven had rejoiced to reflect the Creator's glory and to show forth His praise. And while God was thus honored, all had been peace and gladness. But a note of discord now marred the celestial harmonies. The service and exaltation of self, contrary to the Creator's plan, awakened forebodings of evil in minds to whom God's glory was supreme. The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker, and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed jealousy of Christ to prevail, and he became the more determined. {GC 494.2}

God had manifested His abhorrence of the principles of rebellion. All heaven saw His justice revealed, both in the condemnation of Satan and in the redemption of man. Lucifer had declared that if the law of God was changeless, and its penalty could not be remitted, every transgressor must be forever debarred from the Creator's favor. He had claimed that the sinful race were placed beyond redemption and were therefore his rightful prey. But the death of Christ was an argument in man's behalf that could not be overthrown. The penalty of the law fell upon Him who was equal with God, and man was free to accept the righteousness of Christ and by a life of penitence and humiliation to triumph, as the Son of God had triumphed, over the power of Satan. Thus God is just and yet the justifier of all who believe in Jesus. {GC 502.3}

Lobo,

Did you also read the clearly worded quotes by Ellen G. White that Mike provided?

Lobo, it makes sense that Gentiles who unwittingly live in harmony with the last six commandments are also living in harmony with the eternal moral law. In fact, none of the laws God has required over the years violates the eternal moral law. God could express the moral law in a million ways and all of them would be in harmony with the eternal moral law.

I agree Mike, but I’m not saying that the OT law is in conflict with God’s moral law. I believe it is based on those very principles. However, does that mean its specific requirements are the same?

In other words, I believe the precepts of God’s moral law are love and obedience for God. That it!

Now how that was articulated for Israel or those God worked with was tailored just for them at that time. So as God continued to work with individuals down through time He continued to reveal how he wanted them to fit under the moral law precepts. Then with Israel he gave them even more to the tune of 613 laws. Again, very specific laws for them at that time. This would be called God’s progressive revelation of his will.

Then with the advent of Jesus, God’s last revelation of his will, he moved the focus away from those specific laws for Israel or what had gone before back to the precepts of the moral law. This is why Jesus was hated by the Jews; the law that they were given and was their “birthright” was being removed. So the specific items that made them Jews was no longer important. This is why Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath many times and breaking other commands of the OT law. Because he was living and teaching in accordance with God eternal moral law, not the OT law.

So my point is that while Jesus lived in harmony with the OT law the principles he taught were far and above the moral level of the OT law, they were the eternal moral law. For example, in Mat 5 Jesus takes some items from the law and moves the focus back to the moral law. So the OT law states divorce for any reason was ok under the law, Jesus said only for death or unfaithfulness. That was the original intent of the moral law, but God modified the law given Israel to meet them at the moral level they were at (Matt 19:8).

So my point is, like the example of divorce, the OT law was for those people at that time only. The laws given to Israel and before was a watered-down version of the moral law. The law Jesus revealed was much closer to the eternal moral law and this would be the law that Gentiles could by nature follow.

So here is how it breaks out:

OT Law = Only for Israel and those who lived before them
= Very specific things based on a low moral level
= Designed to bring the persons behavior inline with the law as given
= Pointed to Jesus fulfillment on the cross
= Temporary

NT Law = For all believers
= Global moral principles that can be applied to all situations
= Designed to bring a believers heart inline with Jesus
= Points to a continued relationship with Jesus
= Eternal


So the problem I see is that we are looking back to a law that was designed for a much lower moral level than what Jesus introduced. So we need to follow the most recent revelation of God’s will we have for man and not that oldest. Since God’s works progressively, the newsiest always supersedes what came before.


ps - Yes, Daryl I read them.

Lobo,

You read them, but you don't have any comment on them?

Ok, you want comments, here they are:

Some of what she states “sounds” ok, meaning I would agree with it, but I have nothing to verify its accuracy to because what she indicates in not mentioned in scripture. So I can neither deny or approve based on scripture. But my own feeling, without scriptural support, is that it makes sense.

Next, I agree that as she stated the OT law was based on God’s eternal moral precepts and those precepts were not bent or broken to give Israel the law. But additional laws were given to meet man at the time in that moral state. So I fully agree with her in this case and that the laws given to Israel were, while maintaining the eternal principles, tailored for their direct benefit at that time and in their current moral state.

Lastly, I do not agree with her assessment of the love for man and God statement by Jesus in Matt 22:34-39.

The assumption that she and you make is that Jesus is referring to only the ten commandments because your doctrines separate them from the rest of the 613 laws. But neither Jesus nor any other Jew ever did that type of separation in practice or doctrine.

So saying that Love for God covers the first 5 commandments and love for man the last 5 is inaccurate because Jesus was referring to the entire 613 laws.

Another issue is that “Love for neighbors” is NOT even literally stated in the ten commandments, but it IS stated in the other 613 laws. This fact alone demonstrates that Jesus was not referring to only the 10 commandments, because he picked a law that was not part of the ten.

Your doctrine tries to fix this problem by making Jesus’ statement symbolic, but that is a poor interpretation of the text because the laws Jesus mentioned and exact quotes from the OT torah law. They are real and literal and not symbolic at all. So making this passage symbolic is poor exegesis.

So in my understanding, EGW’s interpretation of this passage as referring to the first five and second five of the tables of stone is contrary to the facts that they are literal laws that are not literally stated in the ten commandments. So consistent with how the law was used and understood by Jews, Jesus was referring to the entire 613 laws and not just the ten on stone. So he did not mean the first and second five but all 613.

Lobo, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and please don't think what I'm about to say is an attack on you personally, but I cannot agree with you that Jesus violated any of the OT laws. He fulfilled them, yes, but He did not do away with them until after He fulfilled them. During His earthly life He kept them perfectly, maybe not the way the Jewish leaders had perverted them, but certainly the way God originally issued them to the Jews.

I like the way you explained how God issued laws and ordinances unique to the Jews as His chosen people and nation. I agree with you that many laws outlined the life and death of Jesus, and once Jeus fulfilled them they were no longer binding upon mankind.

But not so with the ten commandments. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you that Jesus' life and death abolished them. Without the guidance of the ten commandments it's anybody's guess what is and what is not a sin. God just isn't it that arbitrary or elusive.

Your conclusion that the ten commandments are morally deficient is totally inaccurate. There isn't anything not accommodated in them. The idea that Jesus added to them to improve them or to replace them is completely unfounded and unbiblical. The 613 laws you keep referring to are all inherent in ten commandments. In principle they take into consideration every possible aspect of life and death.

Matthew
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Isaiah
42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.