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Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74105
06/25/06 03:15 PM
06/25/06 03:15 PM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Q1 – Where does the Bible say, in a direct, clear, straightforward way, that “the law of Christ” took the place of the “law of God” for the Christians?

Answer no. 1..
Read John 14:15 and John 15:12.
Christ ordered us to love each other, which is His command to us, His believers after the cross.

Read Leviticus 18:4,5.
God ordered the Jews to keep the Ten Commandment for a reward of life.

Read Romans 3:19,20.
All law keepers who seek life through obedience are under condemnation.
Read 2 Corinthians 3:6,7
Serving the Law lead only to death .

Read Romans 13:8.
But by loving each other we have fulfilled the demands of the Ten Commandment.

Read Romans 8:4.
By walking after the Spirit, the righteousness of the Law (Ten Commandments) is fulfilled in us.

Read Galatians 5:22.
The fruit of the Spirit is love.

Conclusion: if we live with faith and walk after the Spirit, the righteous demands of the law (love) is fulfilled in us for love is fruit of the Spirit and love is the fulfillment of the law.

With this in mind, who need the Ten Commandments? No one.

Thus, as Paul said, Christians should now serve the ministry of the Spirit (to live according to the Spirit and the fruit is love) with faith in Christ (2 Corinthians 3:6-11), for the ministry of the law (keeping and obeying the law) lead only to death and has been done away.

Luke approved it: The law (10 Cs) and the prophets (the Mosaic law) were until John; since that time the Kingdom of God is preached……. Luke 16:16.

Repeated by Paul: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made. Galatians 3:19.

And He has come 2,000 years ago., till then, it stops function.

In his love

James S

Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74106
06/25/06 09:50 PM
06/25/06 09:50 PM
Redfog  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 733
Michigan, USA
James, John 14:15 tells us that if we love Jesus we are to keep His commandments. It does not say anything about love taking the place of the commandments. Quite the contrary, Jesus is telling us that keeping the commandments is a sign of our love for Him.

Who needs the 10 commandments? I do. If I keep them I will be happier, I won't be in jail, nor will I catch a sexually transmitted disease. I'll have better family relationships. I will have a day of rest, I'll have respect for God and my fellow man. By keeping the 4th commandment I'll keep in mind the Creation and show my love to the Creator.

We are told that the law has not changed.

Keeping the law does not earn us heaven, however sin will keep us out of heaven and sin is the transgression of the law. Sin separates us from a saving relationship with God.

Redfog


If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence you ever tried.
Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74107
06/26/06 02:53 AM
06/26/06 02:53 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Redfog, you missed the point.

Jesus said, if we love him, we shall keep his commadment and his commandment is to love each other.

It is very clear that Jesus commandment is: To love each other.

Denying this is denying him.

In His love

James S.

Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74108
06/26/06 03:25 AM
06/26/06 03:25 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Quote.
Who needs the 10 commandments? I do. If I keep them I will be happier, I won't be in jail, nor will I catch a sexually transmitted disease. I'll have better family relationships. I will have a day of rest, I'll have respect for God and my fellow man. By keeping the 4th commandment I'll keep in mind the Creation and show my love to the Creator.
Unquote.

So, you rely on a written code on blocks of stone to keep you away from sinning?

Didn’t Paul say that serving this codes lead only to death?

And by loving each other we shall fulfill the demands of the 10 Cs even it is banned. Don’t you believe this?

Do you think that Adam and Eve have this 10 Cs even after they multiply? They didn’t have this law, what is with them is the law of love.

Do we need the 10 Cs in heaven and the New World? Who need it? Love is the great law of God, his very self, which is the FITNES for heaven for those who want to go there.

In His love

James S

Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74109
06/26/06 04:57 AM
06/26/06 04:57 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I didn't read this whole thread, so hopefully I'm not pointing out something somebody else did, but it was Moses who taught the two great laws which Jesus cited: Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all thy mind and heart and soul and strength and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as Thyself.

So the idea that love is the fulfillment of the law, as Paul put it, was present in the Old Testament.

What Christ did, as far as the law is concerned, was to reveal what the keeping of the law really looks like.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74110
06/26/06 06:21 AM
06/26/06 06:21 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Q.2 – If now we just have the “law of Christ”, that replaced the supposedly obsolete “law of God”, why does Paul still refer to the “law of God”, saying he has pleasure on it, and keep it in his mind, that the “inclinação da carne” ["inclination of the flesh"] is not subject to the law of God, etc. (Rom. 7:22, 25; 8:7 e 8')? Why does he still refer to the “law of God”, “commandments of God”, things that would be past, instead of focusing only on the “law of Christ”?

Why? Because the law of God discern sin and righteousness!

We will be righteous if we love each other but we sin when we break each of the Ten Commandments.

In His love

James S.

Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74111
06/26/06 06:39 AM
06/26/06 06:39 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
Q.3 – If now we just have the “law of Christ” that replaced the supposedly obsolete “law of God”, why does Paul enumerate the Decalogue’s commandments (“law of God”), prescribing them to the Christians as to be obeyed according to the principle of “love”, instead of speaking of the “law of Christ” (Rom. 13:8-10)?

I think you missed the point.

Paul is not prescribing them to the Christians as to be obeyed according to the principle of “love”, but in fact he points out that those who love his neighbor has done what the Decalogue demand’s him to do to his neighbors.

And since we believe that keeping the Decalogue from our own would only result in condemnation, we then seek to live in the Spirit and walk after the Spirit, where love as fruit of the Spirit engulf our hearts and expressed to our neighbors in deeds that fulfill the Demands of the Decalogue.

Love first to have deeds that fulfill the Decalogue demand.

So, is it not the same as a “replacement?” Compare with Leviticus 18:4, 5, when the Decalogue was first.

In His love

James S

Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74112
06/26/06 02:13 PM
06/26/06 02:13 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
James, your ideas, as I understand them, seem to me to be correct, in that you seem to be saying that love is the fulfilling of the law. However, this is nothing new, in terms of time. It's not something that started with Christ, but, as I pointed out, Moses taught this!

Christ brought these truths to light, however. He showed what it really meant to love; what love really looks like.
But the same Christ who gave the law in the first place is the one who taught Moses the principles which He Himself reiterated on the Sermon of the Mount.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74113
06/26/06 02:52 PM
06/26/06 02:52 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Let us be careful with our theology. This line of thought would suggest that Adam and Eve did not know how to love their children. Jesus came as man because the demonstration of love has always been obvious in man. He did not come to expose something that had been hidden but to reintroduce something that had been ignored.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Ten Commandments Abolished? #74114
06/27/06 12:43 AM
06/27/06 12:43 AM
Redfog  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 733
Michigan, USA
James do you think it is OK with God if we sin?

When Jesus said if you love Me keep my commandments (notice more than one) do you think it might have been possible that He was refering to His Ten Commandments?

Without the commandments are we free to do anything we want? Of course not.

If we are not to sin then we need the Ten Commandments to know weather or not we are sinning. Right? Sin after all is the transgression of the Law, what law? Gods law. What is Gods law?

James I don't rely on words on blocks of stone to keep me from sinning. I rely on them to know what sin is.

There is nowhere in the Bible that God ever did away with the 10 commandments. And my question is why would anyone not want to keep them? Even if they were no longer valid they would still direct us to a happier life. Why would anyone not want to keep the Sabbath when God blesses us so much? Why would anyone not want to honor our parents? James, keeping the law is not restrictive but freedom from a life of misery. The decalog was given for our own good. Keeping the laws of God is a privilege, not a burden.

Redfog


If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence you ever tried.
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