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What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
#80601
11/03/06 02:02 PM
11/03/06 02:02 PM
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What is the timing of the Fall of Lucifer?From my reading of Ezekiel 28:11 to 19 I came to wonder about the timing of the Fall of Lucifer in relation to the creation of this world and the Garden of Eden. I am focusing on Ezekiel 28:13 which says: Ezekiel 28:13 You have been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the ruby, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the turquoise, and the emerald, and gold. The workmanship of your tambourines and of your flutes was prepared in you in the day that you were created.
The SDA Bible Commentary states the following: 13. Eden. Here to be taken in its larger sense as the dwelling place of God (see PP 35). The context shows that Lucifer had not yet fallen. The creation of our earth, the placement of our first parents in Eden, occurred subsequent to his fall (see PP 36; 3SG 33; 1SP 23; EW 146).
I had always thought that Lucifer had fallen prior to the creation of this world. With the above verse and SDA Commentary quotes in mind, I now have some more reading to do. Do any of you reading this have any thoughts on this to share here?
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Daryl]
#80603
11/03/06 02:49 PM
11/03/06 02:49 PM
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From my reading so far from the SOP references provided, I am having a hard time accepting what the SDA Bible Commentary has said about the Fall of Lucifer taking place after the creation of both this world and the Garden of Eden, unless Ezekiel 28:13 in regards to the garden of eden is specifically referring to the Garden of Eden that was created on this Earth.
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Daryl]
#80605
11/03/06 03:33 PM
11/03/06 03:33 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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"The creation of our earth, the placement of our first parents in Eden, occurred subsequent to his fall."
The SDABC is verifying that Lucifer's fall occurred before our first parents were created and placed in Eden.
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#80612
11/03/06 05:30 PM
11/03/06 05:30 PM
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Upon what is the SDABC basing that statement?
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#80617
11/03/06 06:01 PM
11/03/06 06:01 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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The best interpreter of Scripture is the Holy Spirit. The secound best is the bible itself. Have you consulted those?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: vastergotland]
#80618
11/03/06 06:26 PM
11/03/06 06:26 PM
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And then there is also the inspired writings of EGW. If you read my earlier posts, your question would have been answered before even posing it, as I have looked at the text in question, the comments to it made by the SDACC, and the writings of EGW in relation to that text, however, I am having a problem with that particular comment made in the SDACC, which is why I asking others thoughts on this. As far as the Holy Spirit goes, I like to think that the Holy Spirit impresses all of us, which is another reason why I asked for others thoughts on this.
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Daryl]
#80621
11/03/06 06:51 PM
11/03/06 06:51 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Eden. Here to be taken in its larger sense as the dwelling place of God (see PP 35). The context shows that Lucifer had not yet fallen. The creation of our earth, the placement of our first parents in Eden, occurred subsequent to his fall. This is saying that "Eden" is not dealing with the Garden of Eden, but in a more general sense with the dwelling place of God. The SDABC is arguing against the idea that Lucifer did not fall until after Adam and Eve fell in the garden of Eden. They just weren't very clear in expressing their thought. Here's what they are saying, in my own words: "Eden is dealing with the dwelling place of God as a general term. It's not specifically dealing with the Garden of Eden. The text is not saying that Lucifer didn't fall until after man's fall in the garden of Eden, which we know can't be the case because of (this, that, and the other thing)." They (SDABC) give as example of "Eden" being used to refer to the dwelling place of God, PP 35, which says: Little by little Lucifer came to indulge the desire for self-exaltation. The Scripture says, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness." Ezekiel 28:17. "Thou hast said in thine heart, . . . I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. . . . I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14. Though all his glory was from God, this mighty angel came to regard it as pertaining to himself. Not content with his position, though honored above the heavenly host, he ventured to covet homage due alone to the Creator. Here we see EGW applying "Eden" to Lucifer at a time when Lucifer was in heaven. Does that make sense?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: Daryl]
#80625
11/03/06 07:10 PM
11/03/06 07:10 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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And then there is also the inspired writings of EGW. Who Ive come to understand once said that her writings should only be consulted on theological questions after an exhaustive biblestudy... If you read my earlier posts, your question would have been answered before even posing it, as I have looked at the text in question, the comments to it made by the SDACC, and the writings of EGW in relation to that text, however, I am having a problem with that particular comment made in the SDACC, which is why I asking others thoughts on this.
Well, I did read about all of those and they are exactly why I wrote what I wrote. Reading Ezekiel isnt exactly an exhaustive bibestudy on the fall of satan and the angles. For instance, have you considered ezekiel in connection with revelation? Are there other books of scripture that adress the issue? The comments made by SDACC and EGW unfortunately do not count as scripture. As far as the Holy Spirit goes, I like to think that the Holy Spirit impresses all of us, which is another reason why I asked for others thoughts on this.
How about reading the book of ezekiel and any other relevant part of the bible and then lock yourself into whereever you have your prayerroom and pray over it for a couple of days?
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: vastergotland]
#80657
11/04/06 12:30 PM
11/04/06 12:30 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Since Jesus is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world, which I take to be before the foundations of the world were created, then this plan was to counter what was coming, in which sin enters the world after the fall of Adam and Eve. This is found in Revelation, and we also read that Jesus saw satan fall as lightning from heaven, and Revelation says he was hurled down to the earth. When exactly? The earth was void and without form way before the foundations were laid, it was what appears to me as a blob of water, a water sphere for lack of a better word. John Milton in his book Paradise Lost describes that the devil was in "the abyss" or there abouts. He would apparently wake up from visions and have his daughters write what he saw, his book was written in 1603. Anyways aside from all that, for the devil to be cast out of heaven would mean that while he was in heaven all this business of his falling ocurred in heaven, and this doesn't happen overnight considering 1/3 of the angels went with him, this is in the Bible as well. I understand the portion of Ezekiel to mean that Lucifer did walk in the garden of Eden, when was that who knows? Did he lose his jewlery in which he was decked out in after he was cast out of heaven? The above comes from Genesis, revelation, Ezekiel, Luke, and after reading several chapters of Paradise lost close to 15 years ago with a college professor. I need to read in which of the books Ellen White wrote about Lucifers fall, creation, and that timing and cross reference to see what the common thread is, and the details of anything that deviates from the commin thread and try and understand it. God Bless & Happy Sabbath, Will
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Re: What is The Timing of the Fall of Lucifer?
[Re: vastergotland]
#80658
11/04/06 12:32 PM
11/04/06 12:32 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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double post sorry.
Last edited by Will; 11/04/06 12:33 PM.
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