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Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9763
04/29/03 08:52 AM
04/29/03 08:52 AM
S
StanMcCluskey  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 148
Naches, WA
Linda has started a very timely thread her, and I pray it will motivate people to study again the prophecies about the end-time. We are now living at a time when several of these end-time prophecies are rapidly converging toward fulfillment.

1. The United States is successor to Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome, and papal Rome as KING OF THE NORTH. And Iraq may well be successor to Egypt as KING OF THE SOUTH. Now look at Daniel 11:40 and apply it to this present “time of the end," when the king of the south will “PUSH AT” the king of the north, who will then come against the king of the south “LIKE A WHIRLWIND.” If the United States now carries out its implied threats to “enter into” other countries, then we can be confident that we are now in that period referred to by Ellen White when she wrote:
quote:
The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecy of the eleventh chapter of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfillment. 9T 11.

The wars and rumors of wars, the destruction by fire and flood, say clearly that the time of trouble, which is to increase until the end, is very near at hand. We have no time to lose. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfilment. EGW in RH 11-24-1904.

2. Daniel 11:41 reads: “He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown.” Please note that the word “countries” is in italics in the Bible. That means it is a supplied word, not found in the original manuscripts. In our time, “the glorious land” is a symbol of SPIRITUAL ISRAEL. So by leaving out that supplied word, we find this prophecy to be in agreement with the one in Revelation 13 about end-time persecutions by the two-horned beast.

3. We see the nations of Europe uniting, and becoming more and more critical of the United States. At the same time there is a push by the papacy to have these nations declared “Christian” (read, Catholic). Now read Revelation 17, where the harlot (apostate Protestant America) starts out in control of the situation, as in Revelation 13. But the beast there is a revival of the first beast of Revelation 13. The nations of Europe (symbolized by the 10 western kingdoms in the original breakup of the Roman Empire) are said to “receive authority with the beast for one hour.” During this very short period of time, they will “hate the harlot and burn her up with fire.” Revelation 17:12-13,16. (It is a future Sunday law that will be “giving life” to the papal beast, and “restore” its “lost ascendancy.” 5T 712; EGW in RH 6-15-1897. That was not accomplished by giving the papacy a couple acres of land back in 1948, as some say).

4. I believe there is one more line of prophecy to consider here; and I recognize it is more controversial, so be more cautious on accepting this unless future events prove it to be accurate. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the Revelation 6 events right now. Evangelicals believe the rider on the white horse is the antichrist; but Revelation 19:11 makes it evident this is Jesus, going forth “conquering and to conquer” in a wonderful way. As we see the rapid advance of the gospel around the world, we must consider the possibility that we are seeing the leadership of Jesus on that symbolic white horse. So Revelation 6 presents another “series of events” for us to consider as we watch the rapid march toward the second coming of Christ. Compare with the following:
quote:

There will be a series of events revealing that God is master of the situation. The truth will be proclaimed in clear, unmistakable language. 9T 96.

I saw that the powers of earth are now being shaken and that events come in order. War, and rumors of war, sword, famine, and pestilence are first to shake the powers of earth, then the voice of God will shake the sun, moon, and stars, and this earth also. EW 41.

There seemed to be a little time of peace. Once more the inhabitants of the earth were presented before me; and again everything was in the utmost confusion. Strife, war, and bloodshed, with famine and pestilence, raged everywhere. Other nations were engaged in this war and confusion. War caused famine. Want and bloodshed caused pestilence. And then men's hearts failed them for fear, "and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth." 1 T 268.

I saw the sword, famine, pestilence, and great confusion in the land. The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed. EW 33.

The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, nor will it be understood until the unrolling of the scroll. 6T 17.

When the fifth seal was opened, John the Revelator in vision saw beneath the altar the company that were slain for the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. After this came the scenes described in the eighteenth of Revelation, when those who are faithful and true are called out from Babylon. Maranatha 199.

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness….The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress which prophets have described as the time of Jacob's trouble. The cries of the faithful, persecuted ones ascend to heaven. And as the blood of Abel cried from the ground, there are voices also crying to God from martyrs' graves, from the sepulchers of the sea, from mountain caverns, from convent vaults: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev 6:10). 5T 451.


Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9764
04/30/03 12:42 AM
04/30/03 12:42 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

"The wars and rumors of wars, the destruction by fire and flood, say clearly that the time of trouble, which is to increase until the end, is very near at hand. We have no time to lose. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfilment."
EGW in RH 11-24-1904.

This quote will be 100 years old in a few short months.

A proper Scriptural grounding here would explain it all much better. I see the above EG White quotes as lifted out of the author's intended context based on the fact that "the end is near," was said 100 years ago, in this quote; as I have stated above, that people have been saying for longer than 100 years.

If these EGW quotes are intended to dismiss the above Scripture evidence presented; then it would indeed be a use of her writings that she had never intended.

I agree with Stan; that this topic is worthwhile; and it will be doubly so, if it gets even one more person studying more closely the books of Daniel & Revelation.

The Bible facts of the matter, especially in context to initial comments re the Iraq conflict; seems to indicate something more overwhelming than a specific conflict, in specific geographic locations.

Over and over again; the Bible and the Spirit Of Prophecy warns against overwhelming delusions and deceptions, as the over riding signal, that will herald in "the time of trouble."

I have supplied some Scripture above; which are supported well in Ellen White's writings by such as:

"EW.088.002
I saw the rapidity with which this delusion was spreading. A train of cars was shown me, going with the speed of lightning. The angel bade me look carefully. I fixed my eyes upon the train. It seemed that the whole world was on board, that there could not be one left. Said the angel, "They are binding in bundles ready to burn." Then he showed me the conductor, who appeared like a stately, fair person, whom all the passengers looked up to and reverenced. I was perplexed and asked my attending angel who it was. He said, "It is Satan. He is the conductor in the form of an angel of light. He has taken the world captive. They are given over to strong delusions, to believe a lie, that they may be damned. This agent, the next highest in order to him, is the engineer, and other of his agents are employed in different offices as he may need them, and they are all going with lightning speed to perdition."

"The final movements will be rapid ones." 9T 11

I guess I am just questioning why we tend to join the rest of the christian world in repeating the phrase, "the end is near," (for over 100 years),when there are more immediate issues to be confronted.

The above quotes supplied by Stan seem to lend better support to an atmosphere, and an era of deception, rather than "the end?"

What do others think? [Smile]

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9765
04/30/03 04:22 PM
04/30/03 04:22 PM
S
StanMcCluskey  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 148
Naches, WA
David, I agree that we need to be careful not to change the meaning by lifting a phrase out of context. But a delay of 100 years for the words of our end-time prophet to be fulfilled seems quite reasonable in view of some of the time statements found in the Bible, and written nearly 2,000 years ago:
quote:
Little children, IT IS THE LAST TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:18.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must SHORTLY come to pass. Revelation 1:1.

Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Revelation 3:11; see also 22:7, 12, 20.

Now compare what John wrote above, nearly 2,000 years ago, with that EGW statement written just 100 years ago:
quote:
"The wars and rumors of wars, the destruction by fire and flood, say clearly that the time of trouble, which is to increase until the end, is VERY NEAR at hand. We have no time to lose. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfilment." EGW in RH 11-24-1904.

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9766
04/30/03 05:11 PM
04/30/03 05:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Daryl and Zyph, I've been away for the last week. That's why I haven't answered you sooner. Plus this isn't my favorite thread. However, I do find it interesting that you are finding fault with the USA for deposing Saddam and working towards democracy in Iraq. If this is "speaking like a dragon" then I say - Praise God!

I believe it is very clear in the SOP that the USA doesn't begin speaking like a dragon until she begins enforcing the Sunday Sabbath. Liberating innocent citizens from the tryanny of Saddam hardly resembles a dragon. Do you think the USA would stand by and tolerate tyranny in Canada or Australia? Would you want her to? Or would you welcome her military if it meant the restoration of democracy and freedom?

Why didn't the USA enter WWII sooner? Because neither she nor the world perceived her as the only superpower back then. If the European nations did not perceive the threat of Nazi Germany - why should the USA? Did the world forget the lessons of WWII? It would appear so - that is, except for Britian and the USA. To sit back and allow Saddam to build weapons of mass destruction is tantamont to what happened in Europe during the years before WWII.

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9767
04/30/03 05:17 PM
04/30/03 05:17 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline OP
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
God’s instructions to us are very clear and were repeated many times: study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. A sampling of those instructions are here quoted. I searched to see how many times we were instructed to study Matthew 24. I can’t find even one. We are instructed to study chapters 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 18, 25, and 28 but no 24.

Yet there is a great fear of studying the prophecies of these two great books. There is a fear among Adventists to say, “This is being fulfilled before our very eyes.” We’re afraid we might be wrong and someone might laugh at us. Poor William Miller. If he had had the same attitude, the first angel’s message would not have been preached by him. And it turned out he was wrong on one detail! Are we doing the same thing? Are we afraid to study for fear of what we might discover? Do we fear that we might be called on to give an unpopular message, unpopular even with Adventists? Are we so afraid of being deceived that perhaps we are actually being deceived while believing that we are avoiding it?

Delusions are rampant in these last days, but it is no delusion or deception to study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. What message can we give that is more important to this world that those of Revelation 14, that we are living in the time of the judgment in heaven, that Babylon is fallen, and those who receive the mark of the beast will be destroyed when Jesus returns. The prophecies of Daniel and Revelation flesh out the scenes of these messages. Our very salvation rests on our proper understanding of these messages.
quote:
As we near the close of this world's history, the prophecies recorded by Daniel demand our special attention, as they relate to the very time in which we are living. With them should be linked the teachings of the last book of the New Testament Scriptures. Satan has led many to believe that the prophetic portions of the writings of Daniel and of John the revelator cannot be understood. But the promise is plain that special blessing will accompany the study of these prophecies. "The wise shall understand" (verse 10), was spoken of the visions of Daniel that were to be unsealed in the latter days; and of the revelation that Christ gave to His servant John for the guidance of God's people all through the centuries, the promise is, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein." Revelation 1:3. {PK 547.2}
________________

Brethren, the Lord calls for copartnership in his work. He desires us to enlist our interests in his cause, as Daniel did. We should receive great benefits from a study of the book of Daniel in connection with the Revelation. Daniel studied the prophecies. He earnestly sought to know their meaning. He prayed and fasted for heavenly light. And the glory of God was revealed to him in even greater measure than he could endure. We are in equal need of divine illumination. God has called us to give the last message of warning to the world. There will be voices heard on every side to divert the attention of God's people with new theories. We need to give the trumpet a certain sound. We do not half realize what is before us. If the books of Daniel and the Revelation were studied with earnest prayer, we should have a better knowledge of the perils of the last days, and would be better prepared for the work before us--we should be prepared to unite with Christ and to work in his lines. {RH, February 9, 1897 par. 13}
____________________

Those who make light of the third angel's message do so because they know little of Daniel or the Revelation. They have not read these prophecies with a determination to find out the meaning by prayer, by study, and by fasting. If they had had the experience of Daniel or of John, they would know that the third angel's message will go forth unto perfect victory. Those who proclaim that message because they see and believe it, will understand that very much is comprehended by it. The third angel is represented as flying through the heavens with a banner on which is inscribed, "The commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." All who will gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their defections, and loyalty from their treason, will triumph with the third angel's message. {RH, June 8, 1897 par. 17}
________________

This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel's message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord's command to His servants is, "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Isaiah 58:1. A message that will arouse the churches is to be proclaimed. Every effort is to be made to give the light, not only to our people, but to the world. I have been instructed that the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be printed in small books, with the necessary explanations, and should be sent all over the world. Our own people need to have the light placed before them in clearer lines. {CH 520.3}
__________________

Ministers should present the sure word of prophecy as the foundation of the faith of Seventh-day Adventists. The prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be carefully studied, and in connection with them the words, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." {Ev 196.2}
________________

Prophecy has been fulfilling, line upon line. The more firmly we stand under the banner of the third angel's message, the more clearly shall we understand the prophecy of Daniel; for the Revelation is the supplement of Daniel. The more fully we accept the light presented by the Holy Spirit through the consecrated servants of God, the deeper and surer, even as the eternal throne, will appear the truths of ancient prophecy; we shall be assured that men of God spake as they were moved upon by the Holy Ghost. Men must themselves be under the influence of the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Spirit's utterances through the prophets. These messages were given, not for those that uttered the prophecies, but for us who are living amid the scenes of their fulfillment. {2SM 114.2}
________________

I am in great travail of soul for our people. We are living in the perils of the last days. A superficial faith results in a superficial experience. There is a repentance that needs to be repented of. All genuine experience in religious doctrines will bear the impress of Jehovah. All should see the necessity of understanding the truth for themselves individually. We must understand the doctrines that have been studied out carefully and prayerfully. It has been revealed to me that there is among our people a great lack of knowledge in regard to the rise and progress of the third angel's message. There is great need to search the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, and learn the texts thoroughly, that we may know what is written. {2SM 392.1}
__________________

"God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of churches who are transgressing his commandments. We have a special work to do to prepare the people for the greatest event the world has ever seen. The books of Daniel and Revelation are of great consequence to us, and should be studied with great earnestness. {RH, June 21, 1898 par. 38}
_______________

In view of the testimony of Inspiration, how dare men teach that the Revelation is a mystery beyond the reach of human understanding? It is a mystery revealed, a book opened. The study of the Revelation directs the mind to the prophecies of Daniel, and both present most important instruction, given of God to men, concerning events to take place at the close of this world's history. {GC 341.3}
____________________

As we near the close of this world's history, the prophecies relating to the last days especially demand our study. The last book of the New Testament scriptures is full of truth that we need to understand. Satan has blinded the minds of many, so that they have been glad of any excuse for not making the Revelation their study. But Christ through His servant John has here declared what shall be in the last days, and He says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein." Rev. 1:3. {COL 133.2}

Concerning Uriah Smith’s book:
quote:
Those who are preparing to enter the ministry, who desire to become successful students of the prophecies, will find Daniel and the Revelation an invaluable help. They need to understand this book. It speaks of past, present, and future, laying out the path so plainly that none need err therein. Those who will diligently study this book will have no relish for the cheap sentiments presented by those who have a burning desire to get out something new and strange to present to the flock of God. The rebuke of God is upon all such teachers. They need that one teach them what is meant by godliness and truth. The great, essential questions which God would have presented to the people are found in Daniel and the Revelation. There is found solid, eternal truth for this time. Everyone needs the light and information it contains. {1MR 61.2}

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9768
04/30/03 05:23 PM
04/30/03 05:23 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline OP
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
These paragraphs are from Testimonies to Ministers, the chapter entitled “The Study of the Books of Daniel and the Revelation.”
quote:
God's Spirit has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood. When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. . . . Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . . {TM 112.1}

There is need of a much closer study of the word of God; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Christ, and that the Lord God of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how God wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . . {TM 112.2}

The light that Daniel received from God was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass. {TM 112.3}

Consider the circumstances of the Jewish nation when the prophecies of Daniel were given. {TM 113.1}

Let us give more time to the study of the Bible. We do not understand the word as we should. The book of Revelation opens with an injunction to us to understand the instruction that it contains. "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy," God declares, "and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand." When we as a people understand what this book means to us, there will be seen among us a great revival. We do not understand fully the lessons that it teaches, notwithstanding the injunction given us to search and study it. {TM 113.2}

In the past teachers have declared Daniel and the Revelation to be sealed books, and the people have turned from them. The veil whose apparent mystery has kept many from lifting it, God's own hand has withdrawn from these portions of His word. The very name "Revelation" contradicts the statement that it is a sealed book. "Revelation" means that something of importance is revealed. The truths of this book are addressed to those living in these last days. We are standing with the veil removed in the holy place of sacred things. We are not to stand without. We are to enter, not with careless, irreverent thoughts, not with impetuous footsteps, but with reverence and godly fear. We are nearing the time when the prophecies of the book of Revelation are to be fulfilled. . . . {TM 113.3}

We have the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, which is the spirit of prophecy. Priceless gems are to be found in the word of God . Those who search this word should keep the mind clear. Never should they indulge perverted appetite in eating or drinking. {TM 114.1}

If they do this, the brain will be confused; they will be unable to bear the strain of digging deep to find out the meaning of those things which relate to the closing scenes of this earth's history. {TM 114.2}

When the books of Daniel and Revelation are better understood, believers will have an entirely different religious experience. They will be given such glimpses of the open gates of heaven that heart and mind will be impressed with the character that all must develop in order to realize the blessedness which is to be the reward of the pure in heart. {TM 114.3}

The Lord will bless all who will seek humbly and meekly to understand that which is revealed in the Revelation. This book contains so much that is large with immortality and full of glory that all who read and search it earnestly receive the blessing to those "that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein." {TM 114.4}
. . . .

Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things. {TM 115.4}


Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9769
04/30/03 06:14 PM
04/30/03 06:14 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Linda,

The bulk of those quotes you provided are telling us that revival will come through the study of the books of Daniel and Revelation. It also sounds like the book Daniel & Revelation by Uriah Smith would be a good companion book.

That being the case, I am either contemplating the creation of a public forum just for that purpose or a topic for that purpose. I am not certain which would be the better way to go.

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9770
05/02/03 03:04 AM
05/02/03 03:04 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Be that as it may - none of the SOP quotes Linda shared even remotely suggest that the war in Iraq is/was a fulfillment of some specific prophecy.

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9771
05/01/03 06:46 PM
05/01/03 06:46 PM
G
Greg Goodchild  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 413
Placerville, CA
I have just finished reading all the posts and it seems that there are several ideas present.

First that we are in the last days. I think that is true.

Second, the war in Iraq is the USA exercising her role as a super power in dealing with a tyrant. I think that is true is well.

Third that the USA is exercising her power as a preamble to her speaking as a dragon. I think there is light in that as well. For we have been told that the USA is the two horned beast that somewhere and sometime will switch from being benevolent to that of a dragon. Whether the Iraq war is the switching point time will tell.

Fourth that studying Daniel and Revelation are key issues in preparing for the second coming and all of the events leading up to it. I think that is true as well.

Fifth that we need to study for ourselves to be prepared for the last events. Also true.

Sixth that there are various camps of interpretaton of prophecy even inside of the SDA church. Also true. We have the three classical schools, preterist, futurist, and historicist. The SDA church has traditionally taken the historicist school of thought but sad to see the other schools are bleeding into our school of thought, perhaps this is the beginning of the flooding of error spoken of in Revelation 12:15. It would be good for us to restudy our thoughts on these subject matters. My personal bias is toward the school of historical thought of Louis Were as the best reasoned most thoroughly grounded Scriptural and SOP position that SDAs have been able to develop so far.

Seventh that the last movements will be rapid, world wide, religious in nature, and the USA and the Papacy will be the central negative players. This is true as well.

Thank you for the study. I hope to learn more as we share.

Re: Target: Iraqi Freedom — Is the War A Fulfillment of Prophecy? #9772
05/02/03 04:16 AM
05/02/03 04:16 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Greg: I appreciated your summary; that was helpful.

Mike, I wanted to say that I agree with what you have said re the USA “speaking like a dragon.” I suppose that almost any country would speak like a dragon, when they go to war; however, prophecy does pinpoint a specific point in time, when the USA will do so; but rather than being tied to a specific event, like a war; this time of trouble seems more connected with certain deceptions.

We have been studying the conflict of Iraq, and how it relates to prophecy. It has been stated above, in reply to what I have said about Mathew 24 that:

a) “God’s instructions to us are clear, and were repeated many times. A sampling of these instructions are here quoted. I searched to see how many time we were instructed to study Mathew 24. I can’t find even one. We are instructed to study chapters 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 18, 25, and 28, but no 24.”

b) “Delusions are rampant in these last days, ; but it is no delusion or deception to study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. What message can we give, that is more important to this world, than those of Rev.14?”

So, is it "delusion" to study Mathew 24?

The intentions of my post this time, will be to reply to these two items, in specific reference to the ORIGINAL TOPIC of this thread. It has been stated that this conflict in Iraq, will herald in some very specific, international events; and I have replied that because of things told to us in Mat. 24, that we do not have any credible way of tying in such specifics, to some hand-picked ,commonly used Spirit Of Prophecy quotes, regarding “the last days.”

Several points I would like to make:

1) I have not intended to polarize Mathew 24 against the books of Daniel and Revelation, as has been done here in this thread. Daniel and Revelation are not “more important” than Mathew 24.. To even hint at such a thing; would not be true to the Words of Christ Himself. It is unfair to the high calibre of Ellen White’s writings, to intimate that she does not tell us to study Mathew 24.; in relation to the “endtime message,” that we, as a people, have been given to share with the world.

2) In a) above, we read the following: “I searched to see how many times we are instructed to study Mathew 24. I can’t find even one.” The writer of this only leaves us guessing what that statement means, so the door is open to all manner of “interpretations” on that point. This is unfortunate indeed. Mathew 24 is an essential part of the last message of mercy, and warning….(so are parts of Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah)…

a) Consider that Jesus Himself draws for us an intimate connection between Mat.24, and, the book of Daniel. In Mat.24:15, He tells us that when we see certain things happening around us, to make sure that we understand the book of Daniel. If Jesus uses Mathew 24 to point people to the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation; then why would we not want to? As I stated above in another post, Mat. 24 gives us light on how to avoid the deception of tying in specific events, to specific prophecies, and then basing our personal “predictions” of how history will occur, as a result of that one, specific event.

b) it remains to be answered, just how the conflict of Iraq is a specific fulfilment of prophecy; except in a general sort of way, relating to what Jesus called “tribulations.” But to be Biblical; it must be noted, without minimizing it; that Jesus says clearly in Mat. 24 how these specific wars & rumors of wars” were not always “signs” of the end; and that they mainly marked “the beginning of sorrows.” The over-all intent of Mathew 24, as I have alluded to earlier, seems more focused on the fact that there will be certain deceptions, rather than specific wars, that we need to consider as being genuine signs of the end.

c) No one in this thread has disputed the fact that it is important to study the books of Daniel and Revelation. There are many places in the Bible that tell us to focus on these two books. Mathew 24 is one of the more important ones; because Jesus Himself makes the connection there, to these two books of prophecy. (24:15).

For a brief glimpse of what the Spirit Of Prophecy says on Mathew 24, consider the following. I would hate to give people the idea, in any way that Mathew 24 was not as important, or was not a part of the endtime message:

GC.025.004
“Jesus declared to the listening disciples the judgments that were to fall upon apostate Israel, and especially the retributive vengeance that would come upon them for their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah. Unmistakable signs would precede the awful climax. The dreaded hour would come suddenly and swiftly. And the Saviour warned His followers: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:15, 16; Luke 21:20, 21.

When the idolatrous standards of the Romans should be set up in the holy ground, which extended some furlongs outside the city walls, then the followers of Christ were to find safety in flight. When the warning sign should be seen, those who would escape must make no delay. Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed. “

Neither Ellen G White, nor the Bible support the ideas initially brought forth here, regarding the conflict in Iraq; and it certainly appears that Ellen White did indeed draw people’s attention to Mat.24, in much of her writings about the books of Daniel & Revelation.

Linda, perhaps it would be helpful if you could explain more your comments re “I could not find any[SOP] that told us to study Mathew 24?” Perhaps I am not reading that comment right?

But, in any case, none of the Bible or other writings here, says: “When ye see the conflict in Iraq; “ but some of them do say: “When ye therefore see the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel..” Do we see this “abomination NOW with the Iraq conflict? When will we see this “abomination?” Is it not true, that this “abomination” is referring to a specific state of deception in the world?

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