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The Search For Truth
26 minutes ago
Originally Posted by dedication
Originally Posted by Garywk
Wednesday 12:53 God pronounced curses on all three involved including the serpent. I've never quite understood the curse upon the serpent as it goes far beyond how we see animals today. It implies the understanding of right and wrong and the power of choice....

So, should we ignore this sanction of God upon women? If so, why? Men had a sanction upon them too. We are all suffering from sin and what got us into this mess was the ignoring of something that seems very insignificant to humanity. I just don't see how we can say relations between men and women are the same as before sin. It just isn't true.

As far as I can see you did say, God cursed Adam and Eve and sanctioned what you refer to as the curse placed upon them. (Sanction=official permission or approval for an action. Sanctify = to make holy).

I disagree, God neither cursed nor sanctioned as in commanded and approved the consequences of sin on Adam and Eve.

The verse says the serpent (which includes both the snake and the one who used the most brilliant and flashy creature as his symbol and medium) was cursed.
It says the ground was cursed.

It does not say Adam and Eve were cursed.
In fact Eve was promised God would give her enmity against the serpent -- (give her protection from his deceptions)
Nor does it say God sanctioned or approved the consequences of sin. He would allow it to show what sin does to human nature and existence, but never commanded and approved it, His mission is to save and to lift people out of sin and restore them into His ways.

The consequences of sin are the result of sin. Once sin takes hold the physically stronger takes advantage of the physically weaker. That was not sanctioned or approved by God! It was a prediction that men, given superior physical strength to protect and provide for his family, would use that physical strength to rule and abuse those who are physically weaker.

The Bible is pretty clear that men (and women) are NOT to rule over others but to be submissive TO EACH OTHER.

Mark 10:42-45 Jesus called them together and said, ?You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.?

Eph. 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your OWN husbands, as UNTO THE LORD.
5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it,

Mark 5:5-9?It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,? Jesus replied. ?But at the beginning of creation God ?made them male and female.?For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.?

So when we read this from Christ's point view.
-- The hardness of sin in the heart has caused the true relationship between husband and wife to be distorted and abused, with the stronger thinking they could subject or reject their wives according to their inclinations.
In the beginning it was not so, and when the heart is in tune with Christ the original can be restored. And Christ came to restore the true not to sanction the distortions.

Ruling over and subjecting others is a result of sin. Not a virtue of Christianity.

interestingly God's command was for a man to leave his father and mother and cling to his wife!
What do we see in history? Did the man leave father and mother and cling to his wife? No, they developed the patriarchal system where the eldest man ruled over sons and grandsons, and the sons brought their wives to basically be servants in their father's household. That was not God's command.

God didn't even want kings to rule over the people. It was a sad day when God, out of the hardness of Israel's hearts allowed them to have a king (to be like the nations around them). See 1 Samuel 8.

So God over rode His own word and contradicted Himself.
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General Discussion
5 hours ago
I was just temp banned on Christian forums for defending Ellen White and the SDA church.

There is a user there who goes by Adventist Heretic who starts thread after thread attacking Ellen White and the church. He flat out lies about our church pioneers and the church, I've been defending her by posting from her writings about love for God and how we are to love our fellow man. I got warnings before but then they moved to closing a thread I started defending her. I offered to defend any statement she made. I was doing it too, and then the thread was closed.

Then another ex SDA started another thread attacking her. I was defending her the same was by showing fr4om her writings that she was governed by love for God and the devil never has his agents defend God and his character so Ellen White was not who he was claiming her to be when the original guy showed up on the thread and again attacked and said she was the sole reason for any problems in the church. I responded to that by calling him a liar and showed the evidence from Thoughts from the Mount Blessings. That was all it took to get me banned. I PMed the mod that contacted me about the warning, and he wouldn't respond to my defense of myself as to the constant goading and lying by the AH guy.
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Bible Study
7 hours ago
Satan's best offer of his throne:

Rev. 13:2 "...and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat [throne], and great authority"

Jesus' best offer of His throne:

Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne"

The four beasts are closest to the throne of God and positioned in higher rank than the angels. However, they do not sit on the throne, neither the angels.

The unfallen beings of heaven gathered around the concentric place of the throne, but they also do not sit on the throne. See Rev. 5:13 and Job 38:32.

We find no thrones for these three groups: the four beasts, the angels and unfallen beings (= sons of God. See Job.1:6, 38:7 and Rev. 5:13).

24 Elders sit on the throne of God, which clearly indicate that they are the redeemed saints from the earth.

1 Pet. 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood [kingly priesthood], an holy nation [throne], a peculiar people..."

The heaven's ranks have seven teams:

1) the throne of God (Trinity of Godheads)
2) the four beasts
3) the 24 Elders-------------------------------
4) 144,000 l - these 3 teams are the redeemed saints (#3, 4, 5).
5) the Great Multitude-----------------------
6) the angels
7) the unfallen beings

Jesus' shedding of His blood made the throne possible for the saints to occupy and rule with Christ Jesus in the eternity kingdom of God (See Rev. 1:5-6 and Rev. 5:9-10).
The redeemed shall learn and be equipped to be kings and priests during the millennium (See Rev 20:4-6).
Then, the saints shall inherit the kingdoms as rewards and shall reign for ever and ever (See Rev. 22:5).

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Life Of Christ
09/17/23 09:30 AM
John 5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your bed, and walk.
5:12 So they asked him, ?Who is this man who told you to pick up your bed and walk??
5:13 The man who was healed had no idea who it was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there.
5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, ?See, you are made whole. Sin no more or something worse may happen to you.?
5:15 The man went away and told the Jewish leaders that it was Jesus who had made him whole.

The man who was made whole, fully healed, had no idea who had healed him.
Jesus had simply disappeared in the crowd.

Why did Jesus disappear?
Why did He tell the man to take up his bed?

This was one time when Jesus wanted to draw attention to the miracle. He chose the Sabbath for performing this sign. On His first trip to Judea He cleansed the temple (John 2:13-16) of its commercial trafficking. Now, on His second trip, He seeks to cleanse them of their false security in their traditions and laws, by awakening in them the realization of their need for a Savior to cleanse them in order to stand in the day of judgment.

Jesus withdrew as the newly healed man walked through the crowds carrying the very bed that had so long been the symbol of his infirmities. The bed drew the attention of the Jewish leaders. How would they respond to this miracle? Did they desire to know who the healer was? But for these leaders they did not see a healed man upon whom Divine mercy had been bestowed. They did not desire the Healer. They saw only a man who broke their traditions and encouraged people to disregard those traditions, and this needed to be punished.
Notice their question; "Who is this man who told you to pick up your bed and walk?" They did not ask, "Who made you whole?"

Later Jesus finds the healed man in the temple. The man evidently had gone to the temple to thank God for the great mercy. Jesus says, "See you are made whole." Given a new lease on life, the old deformities stripped away. And now he admonishes the man, "don't go back to your old life of sin", it will only make you sick again, probably worse than before.
This is what grace is all about! Pardon! The guilt of sin is wiped away, and the person is raised to newness of life in Christ; to no longer serve sin, but in Christ to walk in the paths of righteousness.
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Adult Sabbath School
09/16/23 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by dedication

From the lesson (Tues Sept. 12) with the texts written
Having conquered the ?rulers and authorities? at the cross (Colossians 2:15, Christ having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them . ), the exalted Christ now works out the results of that victory from His position as exalted Lord over the powers (Philippians 2:9-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, all in heaven, and all in earth, and all under the earth; And every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ). Recruiting His followers as combatants in the cosmic war, Christ leads the armies of light toward a grand day of victory (1 Corinthians 15:54-58, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, Romans 16:20).

2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

That gives us the assurance that Christ has won the deciding battle against Satan and his hosts.
And we have the promise that death and the grave will be vanquished forever.

But again we find ourselves still in the battle being urged once more to
STAND, stedfast, unmoveable
implying there are strong forces still doing their utmost to knock us down. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).
But thanks be to God Who gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

A battle unseen by human eyes is being waged. The army of the Lord is here, seeking to save souls. Satan and his host are also at work, trying in every possible way to deceive and destroy. The Lord bids us: "Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Day by day the battle goes on. If our eyes could be opened to see the good and evil agencies at work, we would be spending much more time in prayer, seeking His help, His shelter, His will for us.
Our victory depends on the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. For the outpouring of the Spirit every child of God and of truth should pray.

"We are not left to struggle alone against the mighty opposing forces of evil. Were our eyes opened, we should see heavenly angels about us, to protect us from the influence of the hosts of evil. Jesus watches over every one. He will not suffer us to be tempted above that which, with his help, we are able to bear. He desires us to have faith and confidence in him, that he may fill us with peace and happiness. {RH, August 1, 1907 par. 12}

Its happening, but because people cant see it with their eyes, they just dont believe it.
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Testimony, Thankfulness, & Praise
09/14/23 05:39 PM
I have another miracle to report. It happened right here on this forum,. I posted a link to Eric West's video on directed energy weapons and the link works. Those of you who have tried posting links to you tube videos know it just doesn't work with this software.

All I can say is God is working miracles today to help people, all people, so people understand what is coming upon this world. Someone here really needed to see that video whether they are a member here or just lurk God worked that miracle for whoever it is, not for me.
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General Discussion
09/13/23 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Rick H
Take a look at this, even after the FTX collapse for its fake scheme to sell crypto money..

The people are still buying this fake money...

Not surprising. The games being played with crypto currencies will end up being completely controlled by governments. That's been the game since the beginning as government control of everyone's money is exactly what the devil wants as he has always been the one behind the one world government movement..
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General Discussion
09/13/23 10:22 PM
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General Discussion
09/12/23 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by kland
I've heard about the magnets. I'd like to see them in real life. Must be a strong magnet. I find normal weak ones don't stick well to things unless lots of metal and has to be close to the magnet. So through the arm and assuming the jab isn't 100% metal filings, it seems odd. So don't know if something else going on.

The jab has nano machines it. self assembling machines. There was nothing special about the magnets being used in the video presentations.

Here's a link to an interview with Karen Kingston, a former Phizer employee and whistle blower. Her job at Phizer was as a patent analyst. That's what convinced her to become a whistle blower She discovered the patents were for nano sized machines that assemble themselves in the body and attack different organs with in it. This woman is one smart cookie. I'd say she is brilliant, and very courageous

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General Discussion
09/12/23 04:12 PM
Sorry. It was in response to Rick's.
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General Discussion
09/12/23 12:51 AM
I have more evidence in support of Hislop.

But there is another symbol of the Pope's power which must not be overlooked, and
that is the pontifical crosier. Whence came the crosier? The answer to this, in the first place,
is, that the Pope stole it from the Roman augur. The classical reader may remember, that
when the Roman augurs consulted the heavens, or took prognostics from the aspect of the
sky, there was a certain instrument with which it was indispensable that they should be
equipped. That instrument with which they described the portion of the heavens on which
their observations were to be made, was curved at the one end, and was called "lituus."
Now, so manifestly was the "lituus," or crooked rod of the Roman augurs, identical
with the pontifical crosier, that Roman Catholic writers themselves, writing in the Dark Ages,
at a time when disguise was thought unnecessary, did not hesitate to use the term "lituus" as
a synonym for the crosier. Thus a Papal writer describes a certain Pope or Papal bishop as
"mitra lituoque decorus," adorned with the mitre and the augur's rod, meaning thereby that he
was "adorned with the mitre and the crosier." But this lituus, or divining-rod, of the Roman
augurs, was, as is well known, borrowed from the Etruscans, who, again, had derived it, along
with their religion, from the Assyrians.

As the Roman augur was distinguished by his crooked rod, so the Chaldean
soothsayers and priests, in the performance of their magic rites, were generally equipped with
a crook or crosier. This magic crook can be traced up directly to the first king of Babylon, that
is, Nimrod, who, as stated by Berosus, was the first that bore the title of a Shepherd-king. In
Hebrew, or the Chaldee of the days of Abraham, "Nimrod the Shepherd," is just Nimrod "He-
Roe"; and from this title of the "mighty hunter before the Lord," have no doubt been derived,
both the name of Hero itself, and all that Hero-worship which has since overspread the world.


Certain it is that Nimrod's deified successors have generally been represented with the crook
or crosier. This was the case in Babylon and Nineveh, as the extant monuments show. In
Layard, it may be seen in a more ornate form, and nearly resembling the papal crosier as
borne at this day. * This was the case in Egypt, after the Babylonian power was established
there, as the statues of Osiris with his crosier bear witness, ** Osiris himself being frequently
represented as a crosier with an eye above it.

Here is my source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augur
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General Discussion
09/11/23 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by kland
I don't urge everyone to check him out, as that would be treading on dangerous ground. I had once been looking for something else and came across him in a video and wondered, is that the same guy because he looked different. Aged, I suppose. Yes, it was and I stopped watching. Biased, yes I am. But you might investigate him, enough to see and consider if one should consider him credulous regarding normal physics. To put it more bluntly, consider if he is tapping into power of demons.

I'll take your word for it. I have no interest in researching something like that.
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Bible Answers
09/10/23 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by dedication
Progressive Adventism is a redefining of beliefs related to the doctrines of Seventh-day Adventism.
The doctrines specially targeted are:
1. The investigative judgment
2. The prophetic gift of Ellen White
3. The role of Adventism as a church with a special message and mission for the endtime, as in a "remnant church".
4. The role of the Seventh-day Sabbath as any kind of "test" or "seal" or of Sunday as at some point being the "mark of the beast".
5. Creation, while not totally denied is often modified to fit with evolution in some way.
6. The whole controversy theme is fragmented into acceptable and non-acceptable parts.

Basically, as I see it, it is a movement to progress closer to mainstream, ecumenically acceptable unity in Christendom.
In many ways its a "regression" away from Adventism back into more "mainline" interpretations.

To be "progressive" means to progress --- to increase some kind of understanding
But what is the aim to which one is progressing?
Does our progressing knowledge deepen our understanding of the Biblical truths including those upon which Adventism was built? Or does it move away from what made Adventists, Adventist, into accepting more commonly accepted interpretations.

I would say they want to change the church. They will never succeed as God will get them to take themselves out of the church. They will leave, not God's people. Ellen White tells us that multitudes will leave the church as they will scatter as fallen leaves before the wind, and even more will join the church to take their place. I've come to understand that anyone who is honest in heart will join as the issues are made plain as only God can make them plain.

As Ellen White tells us nothing will be able to hold them back. No family ties, no job loss, no ridicule, nothing will stop them.

I fully believe this as I have studied with a non Adventist off and on for several years and He is now reading Ellen White's books and has found a compilation I didn't know existed. I didn't communicate with him for more than a year as hackers had bricked my laptop and it took me that long to be able to save up enough for a new one. What did I find? He is now a strong believer in the state of dead and arguing for it on a forum full of people who hate the SDA point of view..

He used to get mad at me for the Bible studies I gave him on it via email and stop returning my emails. Over a period of probably 3 or 4 years he's making huge strides toward becoming an SDA. Our latest brouhaha over scripture was over Open Theism. He got angry once again when I demonstrated from scripture that God knows the end from the beginning as Open Theism says the future is open and God can only hope that what He prophecies will happen. He's stopped communicating with me once again but there is no animosity on his part as he has been giving me like all along during our discussion over in the Traditional Adventist forum on Christian Forums. He even gave me one when I told him, sarcastically. I was sure to stop communicating him because he had asked. sarcastically, if I was going to ignore his post when he agreed with me.
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General Discussion
09/09/23 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by dedication
Back in 2020-21 the government was putting on a lot of pressure to get everyone vaccinated.
At that time 3ABN put on a program showing the "benefits" of the vaccine. I was surprised to see that they would broadcast a whole program on that subject! Was even a little suspicious they had accepted the financial bribe the government was offering identities that had the power to influence a sizeable amount of people, to promote the vaccine. Obviously they were following "the science" which turned out to be very unscientific.

However -- to get facts straight.

Danny Shelton stepped down as president of 3ABN September 2019.
But he is still involved with 3ABN in some capacity.
Currently, it is stated that Danny Shelton works as a 3ABN Founder and Corporate Consultant at 3ABN
He has NOT left Adventism.

Greg Morikone is now president of 3ABN.

James Rafferty, is still with 3ABN.
He's been on the 3ABN Sabbath School Panel. He was on that panel last week (Sept 2, 2023) and again this week (Sept 9, 2023)

He's still preaching 3ABN sermons

Here is one sermon James Rafferty preached at 3abn Worship Hour February 2023.
What is the Faith of Jesus
It still says that he is: 3ABN Director of Discipleship

I didn't say Danny Shelton's name was no longer on the membership rolls. I said he had long ago left the bounds of Adventism. I stopped watching 3ABN when I saw one of his musical programs. He had a whole bunch of singers that he said were "professionals" to sing on 3ABN. The women wore tons of jewelry and Danny was wearing a very expensive suit. That was a lot of evidence he had left the bounds of Adventism, He had not worn very expensive suits before. It was obvious he no longer considered himself to be the steward of other people's money but he could spend it to glorify himself. And his divorce from his wife was covered in infamy. There cannot be that much smoke if there is no fire.
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Revival & Reformation
09/03/23 09:45 PM
Time will tell us what will happen next.
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General Discussion
09/02/23 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by ProdigalOne
Originally Posted by kland
I would think, if one looked further into it, they would find the papacy somehow involved with WHO. Already with the World economic forum.

The head of WHO met with the Pope in 2018, and again in a private meeting in July 2023.

?Pope Francis met with Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, head of the World Health Organization, this morning in a private Vatican audience, the Holy See?s press office announced.

No additional details were provided regarding the meeting, and requests for comment to both the Holy See and WHO were not returned before publication.?

?The Holy See donated to WHO?s emergency fund for medics on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic in May 2020.?


I'll stick with Ellen White's reasoning.

I was again shown that the health reform is one branch of the great work which is to fit a people for the coming of the Lord. It is as closely connected with the third angel's message as the hand is with the body. The law of ten commandments has been lightly regarded by man; but the Lord would not come to punish the transgressors of that law without first sending them a message of warning. The third angel proclaims that message. Had men ever been obedient to the law of ten commandments, carrying out in their lives the principles of those precepts, the curse of disease now flooding the world would not be.?Testimonies for the Church 3:161, 162, 1873

Men and women cannot violate natural law by indulging depraved appetite and lustful passions, and not violate the law of God. Therefore He has permitted the light of health reform to shine upon us, that we may see our sin in violating the laws which He has established in our being. All our enjoyment or suffering may be traced to obedience or transgression of natural law. Our gracious heavenly Father sees the deplorable condition of men, who, some knowingly but many ignorantly, are living in violation of the laws that He has established. And in love and pity to the race, He causes the light to shine upon health reform. He publishes His law, and the penalty that will follow the transgression of it, that all may learn, and be careful to live in harmony with natural law. He proclaims His law so distinctly, and makes it so prominent, that it is like a city set on a hill. All accountable beings can understand it if they will. Idiots will not be responsible. To make plain natural law, and urge the obedience of it, is the work that accompanies the third angel's message, to prepare a people for the coming of the Lord. Counsels on Diets and foods p. 69

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OnLine Book Lovers Forum
08/28/23 09:24 PM
Another one of F, C. Gilbert's books is his autobiography titled From Judaism to Christianity. It's a very good read and I've started posting it on Christian Forums in the Sabbath and Law forum.
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News & Announcements
08/26/23 03:11 AM
There are some pretty serious fires in British Columbia, Canada!!!

the Bush Creek wildfire destroyed dozens of homes in multiple rural communities including Scotch Creek, Lee Creek and Celista in the North Shuswap Lake region of British Columbia, on Aug. 23.

There are something like 300 fires in that province.

Damage to properties is occurring in several communities, but nothing like Hawaii where hundreds lost their lives.
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Bible Study
08/26/23 02:31 AM
What beautiful paragraph -- The Creator of Rest! Thanks for sharing.

God gave us a weekly day of rest to spend with HIM!

How is it that the day that gives us rest and frees us from work, is so often labeled an "act of works"? How is it that the day in which we put aside all claims to "doing it our way" is labeled by many as "legalism"?

The deception has crept in underneath an obvious cover. For it is true that a Saturday, in which Christ is not central, and is just a series of strict rules to follow, is not a Sabbath of resting and delighting ourselves in the Lord, but has in actuality just turned into an act of works. Thus the enemy of souls perverted the Sabbath and holds up this perversion as the reason to destroy the true Sabbath. He attempts to make the Sabbath the chief example of legalism.

But what a heavy price mankind has paid for rejecting the Sabbath.
The Sabbath day gives us the answers to life's three great questions.

1. Where have we come from?

The seventh-day Sabbath is a memorial of creation. For in six days the Lord created all things, and rested the Seventh day and blessed it. We are created in the image of God, His workmanship! He is our Maker! We came from His hands!
He has the authority to show us how we should live, because He is Our Maker, He knows how we operate the best! (See Psalms 103)

But mankind has now substituted the theory of evolution as the origin of life. Thus removing the fall into sin as the cause of death, making basic survival of the fittest the all important element, and removing our obligations to our Creator.

2. Why are we here?

The seventh-day Sabbath reminds us that we need to place our lives into the care of Christ, and rest in Him. It reminds us that righteousness and salvation come by faith in Jesus Christ. The SABBATH is a sign that it is GOD who sanctifies us-- not we ourselves. (Eze. 20:12) Upon the Sabbath we put ASIDE all our works, no matter how important they seem in order to make a living, and rest in Christ. TRUE Sabbath keeping is a sign that we are depending upon Christ.

Thus the Seventh-day Sabbath reminds us that we need to seek first the kingdom of God, and all necessities of life will be added unto us. It reminds us that our Creator, recreates us and renews us to restore His image in us.

But mankind has substituted their own works and commands instead. They have substituted the philosophies of men above the scriptures. Many have gone so far as to say, "whatever feels right, is right" there is no right or wrong. Or, god is in you, look inside yourself for truth--making self god.

3. Where are we going?

The Sabbath points forward to the eternal rest in an earth made new, where sin is no more. The One Who created will make all things new. He has the power to resurrect his people who have died. He will take all those who followed Christ on this earth, to dwell forever with Him. But mankind substituted the belief in the natural immortality of the soul that will live forever in some form or other, no matter if they follow Christ and accept His salvation or not.

So we can see why the enemy of our souls works so hard to pervert or abolish the Sabbath day. In the Jewish economy the deceiver first lead them to largely disregard the Sabbath, then after the Babylonian captivity he led them to make the Sabbath a burden with so many minute rules and regulations that it ceased to be a day to delight oneself in Jehovah and honor him. Thus the pendulum swings and the Sabbath rest is lost in either extreme.

Think of the Sabbath as a special date with our Savior. When we are in love and our beloved sets aside a day when he/she takes off time from his/her money earning work, and/or sets aside household chores and tells you, "This day is for us, let's not have anything interfering, we will spend it together".

What excitement that day brings to a couple in love. Now, if someone you don't care for asks you to take time off and spend the day with him/her, you may very likely grumble and try to weasel your way out of it. Why? Because you do not delight in that person, you won't want to spend time with them.

In the same way, those who love God, look forward to the Sabbath with joy, knowing all their business and "rat race" duties will be set aside, and a whole day will be spent "delighting in the Lord". However, the one who is not in love with the Lord and seeking to delight in His fellowship, will see it only as a day of inactivity and deprivations. Why? Because they are not delighting themselves in the LORD.

True Sabbath observers are resting in Christ in full assurance that God saves and will look after their needs, even though they have set aside everything pertaining to making a living for that day.
An unsaved person, trying to keep the Sabbath holy without fellowshipping with Christ, cannot keep a "holy day" holy. For only in and with Christ can anything be holy
3 473 more...
What Others Believe
08/23/23 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by dedication
It's true that faith in the Bible as the Word of God, is dropping. Even those who still believe in the infallible Word of God, have pushed the Sabbath into the realms of shadows as no longer applicable to Christians. The devil has done his best to hide the Bible truths from the masses. However, he is also very capable of using and misinterpreting the Bible, thus making it appear he is "an angel of light".
I agree a huge effort is being exerted by Satan to totally obscure the sources of truth, for indeed, without knowledge of truth, the people perish.
Marxism certainly is one of the devils tools to help swing about his deceptive powers.

But there are some things that don't fit into your equation.

For one thing, just because marxist ideas seem to be in the ascendency now, there are other forces (also from spiritualistic sources) that are also making powerful influential impact on the world.

Questions --
You say I'm speaking for the church, while you speak for the world but.....

Is the world not involved in the prophesied end time events?

What about Revelation 18:
" I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. " -- The message of truth will make an impact on the whole world.

Do you believe that the three angel's message, and the fourth angel's message is just for "the church"?
Or is it for the world?

How about the prophecies of Babylon? Babylon is the last great deceptive power is it not?
Is that just for the church, or for the world?
Is Babylon's identity Marxism? (While Babylon has appropriated numerous Marxist principles, Babylon has a different identity according to prophecy -- Babylon actually still uses the Bible.)

What is the identity of the image to the beast? Isn't this all part of the last attempt to deceive the whole world and bring worship to the "sun king" who is none other than satan? Does it involve just the church, or the whole world?
Does it involve just a small group or every person in the whole world?

Won't the whole world be given a chance to make the decision?

"The whole world is to be tested, and obedience to the law of God is to be the test." {4MR 75.2}

There will be a back lash to all this wokeness -- (just as there was a back lash from the French Revolution and it's total rejection of Christianity and the Bible, people are repulsed by the horror, and after Bible Societies and Christianity reaching new heights). Just because church attendance has greatly fallen does not mean certain belief systems are out of thought and mind of the people in the lands where Christianity has a strong history and can awaken.

Also the devil is just as capable to use the Bible when it serves his purpose as he is in destroying people's trust in it.

I have a hard time believing all these prophecies are is just about the church, not the whole world.
Marxism is an evil that has been undermining God's truth, as well as societies well being and personal freedom in general, it is deceptive, but it's not the last deception or test.

Originally Posted by EGW
"the fast-spreading corruption (which is exploding in our day) is largely attributable to the desecration of the so-called "Christian sabbath," and that the enforcement of Sunday observance would greatly improve the morals of society. This claim is especially urged in America, where the doctrine of the true Sabbath has been most widely preached."

"The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. {DD 32.2}

"As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power?. {DD 33.1}

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his
power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence.

And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils. The class that have provoked the displeasure of Heaven will charge all their troubles upon those whose obedience to God's commandments is a perpetual reproof to transgressors. It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; (Darkness Before Dawn Chapter seven)

I was just with a dear sister and brother that are facing mortality in the strongest terms, and I was able to tell them that we have almost nothing left to go through, as we are like the days of Noah and passing that of Sodom and Gomorrah. We shall see Satan appearing as a angel of light right before us in a short time, months IMHO if not days, then its the end of all this and Christ will come. Not much more to go through, but it will be too terrible for some of us and in mercy we will be put to sleep as we cannot bear this time such as never was.
14 515 more...
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