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Adult Sabbath School
3 hours ago
In other words, study the character of Christ for it is the picture of God.
9 392 more...
Endtime Events
08/14/22 04:57 AM
There are three ways to use the Bible. The first would be of course exegesis, or what it meant to the original audience. Now, usually when later Bible writers, or Mrs. White, quotes the Bible, they rarely do an exegesis on the text. They make applications based on the exegesis. The second way to use the Bible is called historical analogy. Looking for the same principle from the text but applied to a later event. The third way is not really connected to the exegesis, but where there is a situation where the words of the Bible fit the situation. This has been called a homiletical usage. Unfortunately, too often we want to make these later analogies or homiletical usage to be the exegesis. When in Daniel's day they did not see the text as pointing to the pope, and even less so Antiochus (although it appears that the Antiochus situation caused people to take Daniel off the shelf and blow the dust off of it, and made some marginal notes that eventually got copied into the text.)

Deuteronomy 4:30 does equate the exile with the end of the world. Jeremiah 27:7 talks about the exile covering Nebuchadnezzar, his son, his grandson, then a new country that over comes Babylon leading to other nations and a time when God was going to take his people home. So we get an idea of 4 major and some minor divisions. Daniel starts with four divisions, and Daniel 2 has a word that we read the idea of kingdoms into, but the word really means individual kings. The book of Daniel names 4 kings: Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Darius, and Cyrus. Daniel 2 and 7 and somewhat 8 has the possibility that the exile could be the last days. Daniel 8 hints that they may not me, and definitely from Daniel 9 time was to continue. Instead of the exile ending in a glorious second exodus lead by the Messiah, there was going to be a lackluster return home, and 70 weeks of years where God wanted to again bless the people (in the last chapters of Isaiah there are texts that we apply to heaven, but is not a perfect representative of heaven. These were things that God wanted to do over the 70 weeks of years.)

Daniel 11 and 12, exegetically tells us what COULD have happened and what WOULD have happened had Jesus been accepted. In Daniel 9 we have Messiah the prince being cut off. One way the phrase translated "cut off" could be understood as being killed. In Daniel 12 we have Michael the Prince standing up. Again the phrase translated "standing up" can mean resurrection from the dead.

The last king of the north does not regard any of the false gods of history, so does he regard the true God? No he doesn't. Nor does he create a new false god, but only worships himself and causes the world to worship himself. (Daniel gives an interesting name for the true God: The one beloved of women. This is a name of Jesus we tend to overlook).

The last king of the north is at first accepted as the Messiah and is worshiped in the temple; but the wise realize that he is NOT the Messiah so he gets thrown out of the temple. He gathers Judah's enemies and conquers the Jews, and heads out in a south westerly direction conquering others, but not bothering Edom, Ammon and the chiefs of Moab. I've heard two understandings of these. Now all three of these nations once knew the truth, once followed the truth but eventually rejected the truth. So one interpretation is that Satan does not need to conquer them, but the rest of the Moabites shows that some of the backsliders can still change. The other interpretation is that since they once followed the truth, that God protects them except for a few of the Moabites who are not willing to repent and return to their early faith.

This king of the north continues in the south west campaign when he hears a horrible rumor from the north and east (the direction he had come from; and where Judah is located) and that horrible rumor is that Michael has stood up, Michael has risen from the dead. Messiah the prince who was killed in Daniel 9 has resurrected. And Daniel 12 tells how the world could have ended if Jesus was accepted when he was here.

From this exegesis of the text we can now draw analogies over how it is to be applied over history from the time of the ascension of Jesus until the Second Coming. I don't know how accurate it is, but I have made an analogy over these kings of the north and south based on the 7 parts of Daniel 2, and the 7 heads of Revelation 13.

These 7 parts are the powers that have ruled over most of God's people from the last son of David who ruled until THE Son of David is again ruling over his people.

1. Babylon
2. Medio-Persia
3. Greece
4. Rome
5. The Holy Roman Empire/Rule of the church in the middle ages: Clay represents being formed by God, but here instead of being formed by God the clay is being formed by politics, the iron. In Daniel 11 we have a king of the north who gives his daughter to marry the king of the south. A bride represents God's church, but again she is married to politics
6. The toes of iron and clay/the deadly wound/ In Daniel 11 a king of the north who only sends out collectors of tribute. A time where there is no great empire ruling over most of God's people. A time of independent nations, some offering more freedom, some more restrictive.
7. The toes attempt to join together, the deadly wound healed, that last despicable king of the north. This will last only a short time and end up in total chaos.

Followed by the stone not cut out by man's hands. When the Messiah will come to lead us home in the glorious second exodus to bring us home to the true Jerusalem, the true promised land.
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The Search For Truth
08/13/22 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by dedication
A lot of people are saying that we need to defend our democracy . But the freedom of religion is not a democratic principle. Democracy supports mob rule not minority protection . In a democracy if 53% vote for something it can be enforced. Whatever is consider the common good can become law. America is built as a republic nation. The principles of a republic protects minority rights, It was americas republican principles that brought the freedoms

Excellent
5 70 more...
Bible Study
08/08/22 07:36 PM
Yes people are to give the message but they need to remember they are to work with God?s angels! As EGW wrote: ?Human agencies are called to be hand helpers, to work out the knowledge and use the facilities of heavenly angels. By uniting with these powers ..we shall benefit by there higher experience and experience? MLT 305. as we work with God?s angels surely surely we want to echo the message they bring from heaven
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Bible Answers
07/31/22 10:50 PM
There are ways where labeling or grouping is useful. But some of the least useful include liberal or conservative. On the one hand the term "liberal" when it comes to religion can apply to those who see the Bible as basically a human book, not really, if at all inspired, and that if there is a God he is not active. But we also apply the term "liberal" to Adventists who are attracted to the ideas of the 1500s in Reformation Theology, and "Conservative" to those who are attracted to ideas of the 1800s. Yet both groups tend to be very conservative in their belief that the Bible is inspired and that God is active with life on earth.

Another bad label is the term "New Theology" I have found about 4 very different ideas that get labeled as "New Theology". I used to freely use the term in talking about the views of Desmond Ford and others who are attracted to Reformation Theology of the 1500s. But then I learned three other uses of the term: Now, I don't know which one of these two applications of the term came first, but in the late 1800s and early 1900s the term was both used in the Seventh-day Adventist Church for the ideas of Mrs. White after the 1888 General Conference, and how they affected people such as A. G. Daniels, W. W. Prescott and Willie White. In the same time period it was used both inside and outside of Adventism for on the one hand embracing "fundamentalism" and rejecting those who questioned the inspiration of the Bible, who used higher criticism exclusively and used this to chop up the Bible and question if the Bible is supposed to be so inspired, why the different writing styles? Some Seventh-day Adventists did group the post 1888 views of Mrs. White with these :"liberal" theologians. The third way was the first way I heard the term and freely used it in talking about ideas of Desmond Ford and other reformation theology people. But when I learned that the term was used for Mrs. White's post 1888 teachings it turned from a bad term to a "Hey, how is it used" and I'd consider myself "New Theology" in how it was used for Mrs. White's post 1888 work. Then the fourth way of using the phrase "New Theology" has simply been used by people to haphazardly label anyone who's ideas they disagree with, no matter where in the spectrum of Adventism, or even Christianity as a whole the people may be.

So "New Theology" means: The theology that only uses higher criticism and doubts the historicity and inspiration of the Bible. Or it could mean the things Mrs. White focused on after the 1888 General Conference and how they were applied and developed by Willie, Prescott and Daniels among others. Or it could mean Desmond Ford and similar ideas. Or it could mean "Anything that I don't like."

There are other terms and groupings that can describe ideas, and where it is more useful is like in studying psychology and seeing the 4 temperament styles (including how they can blend into each other) and how those of one primary temperament relates to the other temperaments. Also grouping what your love language is, and likewise what your apology language is. (We usually are born with a primary and secondary of each. We need to be aware of the other three in each catagory; and also knowing your love and apology languages can help us understand ourselves and each others better. And the different attachment styles (I have mostly covered the 5/6 styles defined by Mylan and Kay Yerkovich). These groupings define things that we generally do, think and interact, and thus knowing your temperaments, your love languages, your apology languages, and your attachment style, and learn about the ones you don't tend to fit in, and how we relate to each other. And these are more specific definitions than what we find in the terms of "Liberal" and "Conservative" or "New Theology".

But sometimes the terms "liberal" and "conservative" can give a a sense as to how traditional people can be. For example, and I don't know how or why this happened, but when I compare Willie White with his son Arthur White, Willie appears to be much more "liberal" with his son being far more "conservative". But this is more of a comparison with each other, as Willie certainly was not a "liberal" theologian" in a lack of belief in inspiration.

This thread is a very useful thread in discussing and understanding each other better. But we need to be leery in how cloudy the terms "liberal" and "conservative" can be, and that the term "New Theology" is completely useless.
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Bible Answers
07/27/22 04:08 AM
From Christ's Object Lessons

"In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Christ shows that in this life men decide their eternal destiny. During probationary time the grace of God is offered to every soul. But if men waste their opportunities in self-pleasing, they cut themselves off from everlasting life. No after probation will be granted them. By their own choice they have fixed an impassable gulf between them and their God. {COL 260.1}

" Lazarus represents the suffering poor who believe in Christ. When the trumpet sounds and all that are in the graves hear Christ's voice and come forth, they will receive their reward; for their faith in God was not a mere theory, but a reality.

"God had made the rich man a steward of His means, and it was his duty to attend to just such cases as that of the beggar.... But he forgot that he was accountable for the use of his entrusted means and capabilities. The Lord's blessings rested upon him abundantly, but he employed them selfishly, to honor himself, not his Maker. ....

"Christ represented the hopelessness of looking for a second probation. This life is the only time given to man in which to prepare for eternity. {COL 263.3}
"The rich man had not abandoned the idea that he was a child of Abraham, and in his distress he is represented as
calling upon him for aid. "Father Abraham," he prayed, "have mercy on me." He did not pray to God, but to Abraham. Thus he showed that he placed Abraham above God, and that he relied on his relationship to Abraham for salvation. {COL 264
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Bible Study
07/26/22 01:57 PM
Revelation 16:5-7 say that the harlot of Babylon is judged:

"And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be,
because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."

What is the qualified reason that the harlot must be judged and deserve a divine punishment?

Did God give her time to repent? Rev. 2:21 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not."

How long has she fornicated with the kings of the earth?

Rev. 17:1-2 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

What is the standard of judgment?

Rev. 11:19 "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Who attacks and prevents people from receiving the seal of God? Instead, enforces the mark of the beast?

Rev. 13:15 " as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads."

When is the judgment begun?

Rev. 14:7 "Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

When did the judgment of the harlot begin?

It began when the Advent Movement gave birth to the remnant church that keeps the entire commandments of God and lifts the seventh day Sabbath, the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

The judgment of God allows "space to repent of her fornication" (Rev. 2:21), while the seven trumpets' message makes a clear warning, but the harlot refuses to repent until the end of the judgment hour.

Rev. 19:2 "For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand."
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