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Bible Study
14 hours ago
Originally Posted by Karen
When I look carefully at how the seven angels suppose to sound each trumpet while Jesus intercedes in the heavenly sanctuary, the truth is that they did not. They put their action to blow the seven trumpets after Jesus cast the fire of altar into the earth. Why would they "prepared themselves to sound" then? After the probation ended? Isn't this puzzling? Thus, each trumpet message may not be a historical event but something else.

The word angel appears 72 times in Revelation. According to the context, the reference indicates the literal angel of heaven, God's people or messenger, Jesus Himself, or an evil angel.

Therefore, when the first angel sounded, the first trumpet meant God's people were making a certain sound so that people of the world would heed and repent.
1 Cor. 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

Why yes, each trumpet gives a definite message! Yet, the message is always based on a call to accept and turn to the One and only Savior, Jesus Christ. This old world is heading to destruction, and each generation has only their life time to escape that destruction and find their refuge and redemption in Christ.

1st Trumpet -- sounds for the first people who were given the message. The Jewish nation.
The gospel was given to them FIRST.
They had the Savior literally walk among them. The Holy Spirit fell among the faithful in their midst. They were to be the light of the world. But instead they , as a nation, rejected Christ.

Matthew 23:37 (Jesus cries) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!
23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Paul says Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Acts 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ?It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

Their judgment came 70 AD and 130AD.

Second trumpet upon a Gentile Empire, supposedly Christian.

God's messengers, driven out by Jewish leaders, turned to the Gentiles.
We read of Philip and the apostles branching out eastward and westward all over Syria, Asia, Northern Africa, Europe, as far as England. Preaching the gospel.
The Gentile Christians became so numerous, Constantine felt he could unify the empire by joining the Christians! History books tend picture this as a triumph for Christianity, when actually it was a serious invasion combining politics and paganism with religion. Were there messengers sounding the trumpet at this time?

We don't hear that much about them but yes!! There were men like Vigilantius, (364-408) leader of the early Waldenses, Helvidius, (300-360) Jovinian [330-390)and others, like the Donatists, who were opposed to the growing superstitions in the church that was nurtured by the emperors in Rome. They lamented the union of political control over the Christian church. The trumpet was sounding!!! It was not welcomed, however. Persecution didn't end in 312, when Constantine combined Christianity with his empire, persecution only shifted against Christians who didn't follow the Roman state church's lead.
Judgment fell upon the Western Empire (476) and through that fall the church crept out from under the emperor's control. Did they repent? No.

Third Trumpet Papal pollution of Springs of living water

8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

With the western emperor out of the way, the papacy rose in brilliancy, to take his place on the Roman seat. A great star falling, usually means a fallen religious leader.

The water life:
Isaiah [color:#6600CC][/color]?Ho, EVERY ONE THAT THIRSTETH, COME YE TO THE WATERS?without money and without price?Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David? (Isaiah 55:1-3).

The living waters represents the glorious truths of Christ's salvation for mankind. They bring life.
To pollute them brings death.
Thus the papacy polluted the gospel of salvation.

Again were there messengers sounding the trumpet?
Of course! The church in the wilderness.
Oh, they were hunted down, and persecuted, a thorn in the pride of the growing papal power, but they were there, and they believed in witnessing. They had the Bible in their own language which they shared carefully (for they were risking their lives) They were the true keepers of God's Word.

All through the trumpets, yes, there were messengers calling for repentance, and a return/acceptance of the true gospel. in Jesus Christ
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Adult Sabbath School
16 hours ago
6. Revelation 6:9-11 Souls crying out from under the altar

God notices the injustice of the world against the righteous.
Abel, in humble obedience brings a lamb to the altar of sacrifice, trusting in the coming of the Redeemer. Cain, is irritated by this. He brings his own good works and is angered because God can't accept it. He slays his brother. Cain is told in Genesis 4:10 the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. [color:#6600CC][/color]

The altar in Revelation 6 is the altar of sacrifice, representing the cross. Just like Abel lost his life because he depended on the promised "lamb of God", so thousands have been slain because they believed in the "Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world", They died for the crucified Savior. Their blood (not literally, but figuratively) is crying out for God to make things right.
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General Discussion
18 hours ago
Why was Ivermectin so villainized. Why were all alternative medications villainized, even though they showed remarkable effectiveness.

Answer: Well they could not impose as mandatory an emergency vaccine on the whole population, if there were other simpler ways to deal with the health problem. So everything else had to be negated.

Ivermectin Overwview
A growing body of research shows that ivermectin is an essential treatment for COVID-19. Many doctors have praised the drug for its broad yet effective antiparasitic, antiviral, antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer, and autophagic properties.

Ivermectin in the past has been hailed as a ?wonder drug? and, according to the UNESCO World Science Report, a critical component of ?one of the most triumphant public health campaigns ever waged in the developing world.?

Read also what Steve Kirsch, the executive director of the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, has to say about other treatments:

"Kirsch argues there are two peaks of vaccine-related mortality: one is within weeks of vaccination, and one is about five or six months after vaccination. Very early in the pandemic, he got involved in COVID Early Treatment Fund when early treatment was something that frankly officially didn?t exist, because everyone was told that the vaccine was the only way out of this pandemic and that there?s one exit door and it?s labeled the COVID vaccine. Yet when he talk to doctors whom he had funded over the past 20 years, all of them said that the fastest, cheapest and safest way to end the pandemic was to use repurposed drugs and supplements and see which ones would work against the virus.
Test for effective methods.
What we discovered was that many of these drugs were remarkably effective.
In fact, there?s one study that shows just rinsing your nose with a saline solution can reduce your chance of hospitalization by a factor of eight. No vaccine can do that today.

"Now, the nasal rinse is virtually free. You just have to buy the water, the distilled water add a little salt and you mix it together. And you rinse your nose twice a day as soon as you know you have COVID. And there?s no risk.

"We funded the Fluvoxamine research. And it was featured on 60 minutes. And 60 minutes wasn?t allowed to say that this could cure COVID. It could say, ?Oh, well, they?re studying it.? And what we showed was that in the original Phase 2 trial which is a relatively small trial, you had 80 people or so on each side, one getting the placebo, one getting the drug. And there would be zero hospitalization on one side and 8.2% hospitalization rate for people who didn?t take the drug.
And also, there was no long haul COVID. If you got the drug early, 15 milligrams of fluvoxamine twice a day for 14 days, if you got the drug early, and pretty much everyone did because the track doctor was there, nobody had any long haul COVID symptoms. Zero. Out of 77 people, nobody had a long haul COVID. In the group that didn?t get the fluvoxamine, 40% had long haul COVID symptoms.

"Even after a Phase 3 trial done in Brazil that was approved by the WHO, even after that came back positive, the NIH still has a neutral recommendation on fluvoxamine and there is no EUA. In fact, they tried again to get an EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) after that trial finished and proved again that it worked. And the FDA again said, ?We?re not going to give you an EUA.?

"But an EUA is given for a drug that is tested in eight mice and all eight mice who got the drug, the new bivalent vaccine, were challenged with the Omicron virus. All eight mice were infected by the Omicron virus. This is the Omicron variant, the bivalent booster. They?ve already had their primary series and they get boosted with a specific Omicron-specific booster and all eight mice get Omicron. That is approved by the FDA for use in hundred million people, or however many people take the bivalent booster. Explain to me how you can grant an EUA which claims the benefits outweigh the risks. Where is the benefit? There?s no evidence of a benefit, yet they approved it. But for fluvoxamine which had a stellar track record and an incredible safety record for 30 years, they said, ?No, insufficient evidence.?
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General Discussion
Yesterday at 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Rick H
Originally Posted by kland

"Even though the human contribution to atmospheric CO2 is very small, it is just enough to create an imbalance of heat coming into and back out from the Earth's surface," Anderson said.

I cannot believe that could be true with the massive reduction in energy sources that happened..

I'm not sure what you are not believing. Did you see what Anderson said? Human contribution is very small. Regardless of speculation of whether small can create an imbalance, it has no effect on total CO2. If you erase very small, the total CO2 levels would not be affected. And if the natural CO2 cycle changed, it would wipe out any small erasure.

Does that make sense to you?
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Bible Study
11/20/22 07:43 AM
The Third angels message and Matthew 13:24-30

The message that humanity will be in one or the other of two groups in the end, is taught all through scripture. The two groups grow together, both receiving God's blessings and care. But one group ends in death, while the other group is given a glorious, everlasting future with Christ!
The warnings are all through the scripture -- the ways of this world all end in destruction.
But God wants to save -- He wants to save us so much He gave Jesus to us, to die in our place and grant us pardon and life!!! He open the way so we could escape the inevitable destruction.
Some may look at the harsh results reaped by the followers of evil, as God being cruel, but no, God poured out all heaven to save us!

Originally Posted by Matthew
13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in thy field? from where then has it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy has done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, No; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
13:37 He explained this to His disciples and said, He that sows the good seed is the Son of man;
13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:
Matt. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

In the parable we see it was Jesus that planted the good seed in people. Through Jesus we can be sons and daughters of God. He didn't plant any bad seeds in anyone, only good seed.

It is through Jesus that we are changed into "commandment keeping" with the "faith of Jesus" people. (see Rev. 14:12)
That's the good seed Jesus plants within us.
These are the wheat, that receive the third angel's blessing.

But sadly there are many tares -- which apparently can look like wheat at first. They grow, receiving the care and live sustaining blessings from God during their probationary time. But they follow the wrong master.
The third angel is calling out to them like Ezekiel's message "33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, The end is NOT good at the end of the road you are travelling.
"Throughout the period of probationary time His Spirit is entreating people to accept the gift of life. It is only those who reject His pleading that will be left to perish. God has declared that sin must be destroyed as an evil ruinous to the universe. Those who cling to sin will perish in its destruction." COL 123
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Revival & Reformation
11/20/22 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by ProdigalOne
I agree, dedication, the transfer of wealth in order to eradicate the middle class, is about to shift into high gear.

Has everyone seen the "10+1 Climate Commandments"?

Yes, those alternate 10+1 commandments were also discussed in the "Climate Change and Sunday Law" thread. The religious groups have been trying to stimulate the Cop27 conference into more aggressive mandates by urging that it is their "moral responsibility" to get with it and do something.

Some activists took their new commandments on tables (simulating Moses tables of stone) up Mount Sinai, and in a ceremony mimicking Moses and his horror at finding the Israelites worshipping a calf, they took their tables and smashed them because nations weren't living up to their demands.

meanwhile in COP27 meetings the cbc reports: Nov. 19,2022
=Negotiators say they have struck a potential breakthrough deal on the thorniest issue of United Nations climate talks: creation of a fund for compensating poor nations that are victims of extreme weather worsened by rich nations' carbon pollution....It still needs to be approved unanimously in a vote later today. ... developed countries would be "urged" to contribute to the fund, which would also draw on other private and public sources of money such as international financial institutions. ...
However, the proposal does not suggest that major emerging economies such as China have to contribute to the fund, which was a key ask of the European Union and the United States.

But isn't China pouring out more emissions than the more developed countries?

But the question that should be upmost in our minds I believe should be, how does God want us to relate to all this? It seems the darkness is pressing in all around us. How do Christ's followers relate to it all?

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Canadian City Hall
11/18/22 07:43 PM
From Epoch Times
The Two Biggest Threats to Canada's Democracy.

Freedom Convoy protests, which began in Ottawa in January, were in direct response to a mandate requiring all Canadian cross-border truckers to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19.
However, as the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) noted, rather accurately, the protests were less a reaction to the actual mandate and ?more a reflection of the general frustration with the pandemic-related restrictions of the last couple of years.? That?s because Canada?s restrictions were among the most severe in the Western world.

What is even more alarming is this revelation:
Earlier this year, around the same time as the Convoy protests were heating up, a sobering poll showed that more than 25 percent of Canadians supported jail time for the unvaccinated. Such radical beliefs are a product of the environment that Trudeau and his colleagues have created, one steeped in paranoia and suspicion. They have managed to turn a once respectable country into a surveillance state governed by people only too willing to punish the populace.
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Bible Study
11/14/22 08:39 PM
The main message in Daniel and Revelation is not "time" predictions, that is included mainly to set a framework spanning history so we can see approximately where we are in the unfolding of the Great Controversy.

What I see is the battle between the true and the false worship.
And the revealing of the two leaders who are offering us these two choices.

Prophecy is a revelation of Christ our Savior and Redeemer and those who worship Him.
Prophecy also reveals the opposition,
the rebellious fallen angel who has set up false worship for this followers who end up worshipping him.


Do we serve the METAL MAN?
In Daniel two we see a METAL MAN. A lifeless yet impressive and domineering metal man who demands worship and honor throughout earth's history.


Do we serve the LIVING MAN, the Son of God?

In Daniel ten and twelve we see the LIVING MAN. He is Michael, the great prince who stands for His people.
He is also depicted in Daniel 10:5-6: whose loins girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
His body also like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

In Revelation the same two are portrayed.


Christ the first and last, the LAMB of God slain but living, working to Redeem mankind, worthy of honor and worship.
In opposition --
We see beasts of prey, powerful, domineering, demanding worship.

The battle is over "US". We are the ones over which the battle wages -- the choice of who we will worship is ours.

Yet the outcome is vastly different.
Misery and eternal death is the only reward offered by one of these leaders.

But we have another option, thanks to our wonderful Savior!
He offers Salvation, eternal Life and endless happiness for all who belief, trust and follow Christ
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Endtime Events
11/14/22 05:59 PM
The next verses speak of God's true followers throughout the 1260 years and to the end.

11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be helped with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
11:35 And [some] of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Who are these people? They are the ones who are hiding in the wilderness for 1260 years as Revelation 12 tells us. They were the Waldenses, the Huguenots, the Albigenses. They were the mighty reformers, who at the peril of their lives stood up to proclaim the errors of the established church and sent the people back to Bible religion.

Daniel 7:25 also describes these many days (1260 day/years) when God's saints will fall by the sword and flame, by captivity and blunder...to refine them and purify them until the time of the end, because it is for an appointed time.
And what is the appointed time of this persecution? Daniel 12:7 says it is for a time, times and half a time (1260 years) that the power of the holy people shall be shattered.

?Yet they that understand shall instruct many?
This corresponds with Rev. 11: 3

"I will give power to my two witnesses and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (1260 day/years) clothed in sackcloth."
During the wilderness condition, God indicated that the true church, though under a long period of strong opposition and persecution would continue to carry the gospel to the world. They had the whole BIBLE both NT and OT and risked their very lives to share its message.

But God is always with His people, even when it seems all forces are against them. The greatest "help" was their trust in God and the knowledge of the hereafter with HIM.

In the twelfth chapter of Revelation we also read that God?s people will be HELPED.
Rev. 12.16
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Yet flattery did more damage than the persecution. Many a brave reformer who had re-established truths, gained supporters, achieved a ?respectable? standing and stopped advancing. Indeed, many of them, in turn persecuted, or sanctioned the persecution of those who sought fuller truth.
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