Julinessen, Norsk flags on the tree, tapes and CDs of Christmas carols in Norwegian. As Children Grandma would take us to NY City to find a church with services in Scandanavian that was having julitree fest. We get some Norwegian foods, and Christmas Eve is when we open the gifts.

IMO, the origins of Christmas are less important than the current meaning in the mind of the common person. When the average person thinks of Christmas, most do not think of its "pagan" origins but rather of the connection with 1) the birth of Jesus Christ or 2)Santa Clause (or some combination of the two.) "Pagan origin" plays no part in their thinking. Therefore Christmas has become a Christian celebration and should be celebrated as such.

There is much precedent for the taking of "pagan" concepts, celebrations, etc. and re-interpreting them in a Christian concept. Speaking of the Passover, Bernard W. Anderson in his book Understanding the Old Testament, 4th ed., page 71, has this to say:

Indeed, it is quite likely that the original nucleus of the account was an ancient Israelite story told to interpret the celebration of the Passover. Even before Moses shepherds observed this nomadic festival in the springtime at the first full moon just before setting out for summer pastures. During the nocturnal celebration it was customary for families to sacrifice a young animal and eat the meat in their tents, along with unleavened bread and desert herbs. The original purpose, still echoed faintly in the Old Epic tradition (Exod. 12:21-39), was to secure the welfare and fertility of the flocks when the baby lambs and goats were being born, and to drive away evil spirits, thought to be especially active at that time. Accordingly, the blood of the sacrificed animal was smeared on the entrance to the tents to ward off the Destroyer (specifically mentioned in 12:23) who attacked people and animals. This primitive meaning, however, was superseded by a new understanding of the rite. As the story was retold in the light of the Exodus, the custom of shepherds leaving for summer pastures was reinterpreted to refer to Hebrews departing for new land. Yah-weh became the "Destroyer" who spared the blood-marked Hebrew dwellings when "passing over" them, so that no scourge would destroy them. ...Moreover, when the Israelites settled in Canaan, the nomadic Passover rite came to be connected with the Feast of Unleavened Bread, an agricultural festival celebrated at the barley harvest.

Here we see that God himself took an existing tradition and re-interpreted it for His people. The old meaning became lost, and the new meaning completely replaced it.

Pope Benedict XVI resembled a clean-shaven Father Christmas when he donned a red velvet hat with white ermine trim to face a winter chill for his weekly general audience. As temperatures hovered around nine degrees celsius (48 degrees fahrenheit) thousands of pilgrims who gathered in the square were treated to the rare sight as the 78-year-old pope arrived for the audience in his popemobile, waving to the crowd.

His secretary removed the hat when the pope sat in his throne for the beginning of the ceremony, for which his headwear was the usual round zucchetto cap.

No pope since John XXIII, who died in 1963, has worn the traditional Camauro in public, though its use by popes goes back to the 12th century.

--Ren

You'll have to fill me in on the significance of this, Razorren.

Just posted a bit of news.



--Ren

I'm sorry that this post will have to dissagree with you Colin, but the Biblical feasts of the land have all been found in ancient writings of Canaan that pre-date Abraham. Yes they had the day of Atonement and the two goats and many of the other events that Israel was to later keep--Israel took the local holidays dealing with the agriculture of Canaan, romoved things such as orgies and made them into ways to think about God, and the orgies to help the gods were replaced with the idea to simply trust God. And don't forget Isaiah's wife was a temple priestess, now they were not supose to be temple prostitutes but sadly durring the dark times they were, but like Isaiah's wife, they were there.

Second, neither you nor Rob appear to have read the posts that I've made. Yes, histories have for centuries said that Christmas has been kept since the 4th Century when there was much compromise with paganism, but we now know that this history is outdated as it has been discovered that December 25 as the birth of Christ was kept since the third century AD and that it was based on the feast of the announcation held every year on March 25 (April 6 in the Eastern Church), a Christian feast from the second century AD that is based on a Jewish tradition from inter-testamental times. So it is based on a Christian tradition from a time where the Church was avoiding paganism.

On the contrary, Kevin, I did read your extensive post; I just don't think it's really relevant. (By the way, please cite your sources.) Who cares what the origins of a particular festival are? In the 21st century nobody associates Christmas with a pagan feast, deity, celebration, ect. It has been completely re-interpreted with a Christian meaning and history, so why ruin it for those whose faith is weak? If it does happen to actually have a Christian origin, so much the better.

Rob,

Not quite true, there are lots of christians who care very much about even the smallest hints of a pagan origin for christmas. For the rest of the people (at least what it seems in scandinavia) it has largely passed the christian interpretation and moved on to the santa/giftsbuying giftsgiving interpretation. In this group mostly only newspaper editorial authors care about any pagan origins.

The sources for Kevins posts, good idea, a schoolarly approach should always be backed with the appropriate source list.

/Thomas

Hi, sorry about that, I've been posting the source but not in the recent references to the post, so of course I'll post it again: It's Bible Review the winter (or November-December) issue of either 2001 or 2002. It is an excellent article.