Is physical self-defense sin for the Christian?
If someone is beating you up to death, do you let him?

Chantale,

I think that each person in such a situation would have to depend on the Lord to direct his actions at that moment of whether he should fight back. It also makes me think of a verse in the Bible:

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And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God’s. To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel. Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you. 2 Chronicles 20:17-19.

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If you were making reference to gaining a knowledge of the martial arts, people need to remember that all the martial arts are an expression of the pagan religions of Asia.

It is true that God promised the Israelites to fight their battles for them, (see Exod 23:20-29). Yet even there, God suggested that He would only do that "until you have increased enough to take possession of the land" (v 30), implying to me that when they got strong enough, they could fight their own battles. You might recall that Jesus in His final instructions told the disciples that if they did not have a sword to sell their cloak and buy one to take with them along with a purse (wallet) and a bag (brief case) (Luke 22:36).

We also should realize that the places where God tells us not to fight are places where we are doing the work God has called us to do. But very few are called to "do the work of God" (only eleven were given the gospel commission in Matt 28:19 and 20, for instance. though later Paul claimed he had also been given the commission: Gal 1:11-12).

When most of us encounter a lethal problem, it is because the other person(s) is a criminal. And it's hard to see why a criminals shouldn't be treated like the wild animals they are (we disable or destroy dangerous animals).

Bob Lee

Does God contradict Himself?? Thou shalt not kill and "sell thy cloak and buy a sword" are seemingly double talk.

Our Lord gave notice of a very great change of circumstances now approaching. The disciples must not expect that their friends would be kind to them as they had been. Therefore, he that has a purse, let him take it, for he may need it. They must now expect that their enemies would be more fierce than they had been, and they would need weapons. At the time the apostles understood Christ to mean real weapons, but he spake only of the weapons of the spiritual warfare. The sword of the Spirit is the sword with which the disciples of Christ must furnish themselves.

Luk 22:38 -
"Lord, behold, here are two swords" (kurie idou maxairai wde duo). They took His words literally. And before this very night is over Peter will use one of these very swords to try to cut off the head of Malchus only to be sternly rebuked by Jesus (Mar_14:47; Mat_26:51 f.; Luk_22:50 f.; Joh_18:10 f.).
Then Jesus will say: "For all that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Mat_26:52).
Clearly Jesus did not mean his language even about the sword to be pressed too literally. So he said: "It is enough" (ikanon estin). It is with sad irony and sorrow that Jesus thus dismisses the subject. They were in no mood now to understand the various sides of this complicated problem. Every preacher and teacher understands this mood, not of of impatience, but of closing the subject for the present.

Ikan,

It seems to me like a huge stretch to presume that a sword which is purchased with the money obtained from selling an article of clothing is the same as the "sword of the Spirit" which is a gift from God.

God doesn't seem to want us to walk blindly into any other kind of danger, why do you think we should be defenseless against human predators?

Bob Lee

Human predators are God's purchase. If the archangel won't even verbally accost Satan, but says, "The Lord rebuke you", what right do fellow human beings have to lift up their hand against another person?

As was previously quoted:

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"For all that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matthew 26:52).

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What did Jesus mean when He said those words?

Zyph,

In the civil laws recorded in Exodus - Deuteronomy, God established many conditions under which a person was to be put to death. Most of those conditions were where one person hurt or killed another. One interesting exception was where a person hurt or killed another in self defense, the subject under discussion on this post.

In the New Testament, another factor seems to come into play: That of persecution. Jesus seems to be saying in Matt. 26, to answer the question Daryl brought up, that we should not try to defend God by using the sword. I don't see where that would keep us from defending ourselves from criminals, however, with any means we have available.

Bob Lee

I don't think Jesus said to turn the other cheek only if you were trying to make a religious impression. He just said to turn it. Lots of things in the Old Testament were qualified by Jesus. The quote, "An eye for an eye" is there, and is the word of God. Jesus qualified it, and in fact changed it. Many people would be horrified at aborting a fetus. Shouldn't we be more horrified at destroying an established life?

[ July 17, 2002, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: zyph ]

Many people would understand the Commandment to be: Thou shalt not murder, rather than kill. i.e. They do not see a total prohibition of the taking of human life.

As to self defense: I will lsuggest that God may leave that decision up to the individual. I do not believe that one can develop a completely clear Biblical case that kprohibits this.

As to JC saying that people who take up the sword will perish by it, isn't that what generally happens?