Daryl, you have quite a number of tests of a prophet. Seventh-day Adventists Believe... lists four, that I could find. There may be more, but I have not seen 11 before.

1 - A true prophet does not lie. His/her predictions will be fulfilled (Jeremiah 28:9).

Agreed, although I would like to point out that the text actually says nothing about lying, only that the prediction will come true.

2 - A true prophet prophesies in the name of the Lord, not in his/her own name (2 Peter 1:21).

Although this may be true, I do not feel that 2 Peter 1:21 supports this idea. I would like to have a better understanding of what you mean by "in the name of the Lord" before I comment further.

3 - A true prophet does not give his/her own private interpretation of prophecy (2 Peter 1:20).

First of all, I do not think that giving or not giving an interpretaion of prophecy is a test of a prophet. Second, I do not feel that this is what 2 Peter 1:20 is saying. Rather, it is saying that the prophet did not think up the prophecy himself. True prophecy comes from God.

4 - A true prophet points out the sins and transgressions of the people against God (Isaiah 58:1).

This passage does not refer to a prophet at all, therefore it is not a test of a true prophet.

5 - A true prophet is to warn the people of God's coming judgment (Isaiah 24:20,21; Revelation 14:6,7).

The same comment in #4 above applies here.

6 - A true prophet edifies the church, counsels, and advises it in religious matters (1 Corinthians 14:3,4).

Agreed.

7 - A true prophet's words will be in absolute harmony with the words of the prophets that preceded him/her (Isaiah 8:20).

Agreed.

8 - A true prophet recognizes the incarnation of Jesus Christ (1 John 4:1-3).

Agreed.

9 - A true prophet can be recognized by the results of his/her work (Matthew 7:16-20).

Agreed. (Is this passage in any way related to the "fruits of the Spirit" found in Galations?)

10 - A true prophet acts in the will and the approval of God (Deuteronomy 18:9-12).

All Christians do. This is not a test of a prophet, but of a Christian.

11 - The actions of a true prophet are not in contradiction to basic Biblical doctrines, but rather support and strengthen precepts already outlined.

Redundant. This has already been mentioned.

So, by my count, I will accept 5 of the 11 tests of a prophet listed, unless stronger evidence can be offered for the validity of the other 6.

P.S. Please forgive any spelling, grammatical, or formating errors, as I am unable to go back and edit posts.

myarsman wrote,

quote:

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Jonah knew beforehand that the "message of doom" that he was told to give to the Ninevites was "conditional".

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Correct! That's what I was wanting to bring out. Many people talk about things Ellen White predicted that didn't come to pass; but they overlook the fact that God's promises and His threatenings alike are conditional.

The principle is outlined in Jeremiah 18:7-10 --

7- "At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8- If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9- And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10- If it do evil in My sight, that it obey not My voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."


More examples of the conditional nature of prophecy:

• Josiah. 2 Chronicles 34:27-28 --

27- "Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest His words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before Me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before Me; I have even heard thee also, saith the Lord.
28- Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again."

Compare 2 Chronicles 35:20-24 --

20- "After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Charchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.
21- But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that He destroy thee not.
22- Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo.
23- And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants, Have me away; for I am sore wounded.
24- His servants therefore took him out of that chariot, and put him in the second chariot that he had; and they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died, and was buried in one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah."

Huldah's favorable prophecy concerning Josiah didn't come to pass, due to his own course of action. That didn't make Huldah a false prophetess; the prophecy was conditional.


• the Jewish nation. Deuteronomy 28:1,15 --

1- "And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:....
15- But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:...."


• Eli. 1 Samuel 2:30,31 --

30- "Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before Me for ever: but now the Lord saith, Be it far from Me; for them that honour Me I will honour, and they that despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.
31- Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house."


• Nebuchadnezzar. Daniel 4:24-27 --

24- "This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:
25- That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will.
26- And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.
27- Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity."

Nebuchadnezzar could have prevented the judgment against himself, of going mad and living in the fields like a wild beast for seven years, if he had broken off his sins by righteousness. Once again, an example of conditional prophecy.

I am going to respond, one test at a time, to Cedric's post on the tests of a true prophet of God that I listed from a book by Rene Noorbergen.

1 - A true prophet does not lie. His/her predictions will be fulfilled (Jeremiah 28:9).

Cedric posted: Agreed, although I would like to point out that the text actually says nothing about lying, only that the prediction will come true.

The first statement, or test, was made pertaining specifically to a true prophet of God in that a true prophet of God wouldn't lie by making a false prediction, but rather that all the predictions of a true prophet of God would be fulfilled.

John,

You have made a good point in regards to "conditional prophecies".

Now please answer me this......

The prophecies presented in Daniel and Revelation in regards to the rise/fall of kingdom, last-day events and the end of the world.....Are these conditional prophecies?

If so, how so?

Daryl, thank you for clarifying that first post. I agree that a true prophet will not make a false prediction, and that all predictions made by a true prophet will come to pass (in accordance with the conditions the prophecy was first given by.)

Whether or not they lie is a human error, and all prophets, true and false, are human. False prophets can give true predictions (Balam) and true prophets can fall into error (Jonah). But prophecy from God will come to pass.

myarsman -

quote:

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The prophecies presented in Daniel and Revelation in regards to the rise/fall of kingdom, last-day events and the end of the world.....Are these conditional prophecies?

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No, they're pretty well written in stone. They fall into the category of

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure:..." Isaiah 46:10.

On the other hand, it's a verity that the *timing* of the Second Coming is affected by the actions of the church on earth. We can hasten it or put it off by our actions/inaction. It will happen, but *when* it happens is conditional.

John,

Does God know the exact day/hour of the Lord's return or would you say that He only knows the conditions that will exist at the time of the Second Coming?

Daryl,
Did you take the tests of a true prophet from the Rene Noorbergen book? Just curious. He makes a good case that she fulfills all the qualifications of a prophet. I personally believe that she is a prophet, but I struggle with how to explain her to my Christian friends from other denominations. Especially with all the criticism about her statements on the Catholic church being "hate literature". There is a video about her circulating through our community produced by one of the other churches discussing how she is proven to be a "false prophet". I have not seen it myself, but it has caused a number of new adventists who had come to us out of other churches to leave again.
ELF

Yes, I did take the tests of a true prophet from the Rene Noorbergen book.

The devil goes about like a roaring lion to devour those whom he can devour which he does through that video that you said is being circulated, however, truth will prevail, for the Bible says that we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free. It's up to the Holy Spirit to drive the truth into our hearts. All we can do is plant the seed and let the Holy Spirit do His work of leading us into all truth.

That is what this topic is all about, namely to seek after the truth pertaining to discerning between a true and a false prophet.

Unless anybody has any more tests of a true prophet of God to present here, along with analyzing the tests that have already been presented and questioned, I think we can now move on using those tests that we all seem to be agreeable to.

The questionable ones can still be analyzed and responded to, which I still intend to do.