Hi there, I have 4 forums now, for women only and so I'm a busy cyber mum and I'm coming to you for help with one of my cyber daughters She is an ex Jew and she is really wrestling with this to the extent that now I'm coming to you for help to reassure her. She feels totally unworthy and maybe this is something to being an ex Jew. love, Barb and many thanks

"I found this verse, which illustrates a problem that I base my feelings that I need to "get ready"...to "make myself acceptable" to God to get into Heaven.

"Before man can belong to the kingdom of Christ, his character must be purified from sin and sanctified by the grace of Christ. . . ."

from God's Amazing Grace by EGW

It's verses like this that contradict the notion that we are saved by grace here and now, and that support the fact that we have to work on getting saved, on developing our character to be saved.... (sanctification is the work of a lifetime...)

What say ye? I ask because it is a conflict that I honestly don't know how to solve.

As this topic doesn't belong in the Training & Testing forum, I have moved it into the Christian Living forum for continued discussion here.

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"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
Romans 8:28

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited January 19, 2001).]

Hi Barb,
I struggle with the answer to that question everyday. I have no answer. I am ex-Catholic. Like your friend; I am totally unworthy as well and have run across those same writings that overwhelm me.

Trite sayings and one-liners will not be the answer to your question nor mine.

I look forward to reading responses here.

God bless,
Kay

The Creator God who made all things decided this question of worthiness long ago, before there were Jews or Catholics or even planets and people.

If any species of sentient creatures sinned, He would for them institute the plan of salvation. He would take their fallen nature into His Deity and live as their representative and substitute and example and Saviour/Redeemer & Tutor on their planet under the circumstances under which they must live.

In their flesh & nature He would win for them His perfection of character and His Day of Atonement - Judgement hour seal- be Himself sealed by His Father & complete every requirement in their behalf.

This perfect life He would present as a perfect sacrifice and redeemers price before the Judge and the court of Heaven as the true Lamb upon the brazen alter. He would be the Holy incense in the Holy place before the vail - Himself offering intercession morning & evening for them daily. He would offer Himself as that living incense within the Most Holy Place before the Fathers throne in their Judgement Hour time of being investigated in the books of record with Himself interceding for them, line by line and record by record. His offered blood (life) cleansing their guilt & unworthiness and transferring that to His Account. Then when the time had come, He with great joy blots out all those sins forever as long as He lives.

While all this is going on in Heaven, He implants His nature in that person who strives to follow Him. God is a refiner of silver & gold. These metals are mixed with trash and minerals and worthless things, they must be refined to have enough of them to be of any use. God adds parts of Himself as flux and trials as heat and circumstances as the crucible to hold the molten mixture.

As each trial causes it's desired effect and requires separation of more trash and worthless stuff, God keeps adding more of His nature into the person. As each type of sin is removed from the persons sympathies for those past sins God leads them ever closer to Him and directs their circumstances. Some trash only melts at a higher temperature and God keeps adding more of His nature to preserve the gold and lower the melting limits of the trash in the gold by convicting the heart and instilling desire to follow Him even through ministering to others.

Go to the book of Hebrews in the KJV & go text by text through each chapter - compare these with John ch 17 & 2nd Peter ch-1 & the 4 Gospels.
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This is for those whom accept SOP as God's revelations also. Such might be premature for a lot of non SDA's & SDA with no such acceptance.
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"We must center our hopes of heaven upon Christ alone, because He is our Substitute and Surety. We have transgressed the law of God, and by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified. The best efforts that man in his own strength can make are valueless to meet the holy and just law that he has transgressed; but through faith in Christ he may claim the righteousness of the Son of God as all-sufficient. Christ satisfied the demands of the law in His human nature. He bore the curse of the law for the sinner, made an atonement for him, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Genuine faith appropriates the righteousness of Christ, and the sinner is made an overcomer with Christ; for he is made a partaker of the divine nature, and thus divinity and humanity are combined. {FW 93.3}

He who is trying to reach heaven by his own works in keeping the law is attempting an impossibility. Man cannot be saved without obedience, but his works should not be of himself; Christ should work in him to will and to do of His good pleasure. If a man could save himself by his own works, he might have something in himself in which to rejoice. The effort that man makes in his own strength to obtain salvation is represented by the offering of Cain. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin; but that which is wrought through faith is acceptable to God. When we seek to gain heaven through the merits of Christ, the soul makes progress. "Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith," we may go on from strength to strength, from victory to victory; for through Christ the grace of God has worked out our complete salvation. {FW 94.1}

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A Letter of Encouragement
WRITTEN TO MARTHA BOURDEAU, A WOMAN AFFLICTED WITH FEELINGS OF SELF-DOUBT, DESPONDENCY, WORTHLESSNESS, AND DISCOURAGEMENT. [MARTHA BOURDEAU WAS THE YOUNGER SISTER OF GEORGE I. BUTLER, A PROMINENT LEADER IN THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH. SHE WAS FIRST MARRIED TO WILLIAM ANDREWS, BROTHER OF J.M. ANDREWS. THEY HAD THREE CHILDREN, AMONG WHOM WAS EDITH ANDREWS, WHO WOULD SOON DIE OF TUBERCULOSIS. A.C. BOURDEAU WENT TO EUROPE IN 1884, AND MARTHA, NOW A WIDOW, MARRIED HIM. THEY LABORED TOGETHER IN ITALY.]{DG 145.1}
Dear Sister Martha: We came here [Tramelan, Switzerland] last Friday, and the Lord has given me some precious tokens for good. I spoke with much freedom to our brothers and sisters from Malachi 4:16. The Lord spoke to hearts. Abel Guenin, who has been discouraged for a long time and had taken no part in the meetings, broke down and confessed his wrong, his indifference, and his discouragements. Said he would no longer remain in the place he was then in. He would come into harmony with the church and do his duty in the fear of God. The tears ran down his face while he talked. His mother, [who] has taken no part with the church and has been much prejudiced against anyone from America, spoke for the first time. She bore a good testimony.{DG 145.2}

A young man, a baker employed by Oscar Roth, made a humble confession. The Spirit of the Lord was indeed in our meeting. A sweet melting power was there. After meeting, we had a praying season in Brother Roth's house for the son of Brother Guenin. I prayed while Brother John Vuilleumier interpreted. The blessing of the Lord came in and the young man with tears running down his face shook hands with his sisters and confessed his wrongs. It was a precious season indeed. . . .{DG 145.3}

My mind goes to you, Martha, in Torre Pellice [Italy], and I believe that yourself and husband should attend the meeting of the conference. We want to see you, and we want to see you trusting fully in the precious Saviour. He loves you; He gave His life for you because He valued your soul. I had a dream not long since. I was going through a garden, and you were by my side. You kept saying, "Look at this unsightly shrub, this deformed tree, that poor stunted rosebush. This makes me feel bad, for they seem to represent my life and the relation I stand in before God." I thought a stately form walked just before us, and he said, "Gather the roses and the lilies and the pinks, and leave the thistles and unsightly shrubs, and bruise not the soul that Christ has in His choice keeping."{DG 145.4}

I awoke; I slept again and the same dream was repeated. And I awoke and slept and the third time it was repeated. Now I want you to consider this and put away your distrust, your worrying, your fears. Look away from yourself to Jesus; look away from your husband to Jesus. God has spoken to you words of encouragement; grasp them, act upon them, walk by faith, and not by sight. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1.{DG 145.5}

Jesus holds His hand beneath you. Jesus will not suffer the enemy to overcome you. Jesus will give you the victory. He has the virtue; He has the righteousness. You may look to yourself to find it and may well despair in doing this because it is not there. Jesus has it. It is yours by faith because you love God and keep His commandments.{DG 146.1}

Do not listen to Satan's lies, but recount God's promises. Gather the roses and the lilies and the pinks. Talk of the promises of God. Talk faith. Trust in God, for He is your only hope. He is my only hope. I have tremendous battles with Satan's temptations to discouragements, but I will not yield an inch. I will not give Satan an advantage over my body or my mind.{DG 146.2}

If you look to yourself, you will see only weakness. There is no Saviour there. You will find Jesus away from yourself. You must look and live; [look] to Him who became sin for us, that we might be cleansed from sin and receive of Christ's righteousness.{DG 146.3}

Now, Martha, do not look to yourself but away to Jesus. Talk of His love, talk of His goodness, talk of His power, for He will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able to bear. But in Christ is our righteousness. Jesus makes up our deficiencies because He sees we cannot do it ourselves. While praying for you I see a soft light encompassing a hand stretched out to save you. God's words are our credentials. We stand upon them. We love the truth. We love Jesus. Feelings are no evidence of God's displeasure.{DG 146.4}

Your life is precious in the sight of God. He has a work for you to do. It is not unfolded to you now, but just walk on trustingly without a single word, because this would grieve the dear Jesus and show that you were afraid to trust Him. Lay your hand in His; He is reaching over the battlements of heaven [for it] to be laid confidingly in His. Oh, what love, what tender love has Jesus manifested in our behalf. The Bible promises are the pinks and the roses and the lilies in the garden of the Lord. {DG 146.5}

Oh, how many walk a dark path, looking to the objectionable, unlovely things on either side of them, when a step higher are the flowers. They think they have no right to say they are children of God and lay hold on the promises set before them in the gospel, because they do not have the evidence of their acceptance with God. They go through painful struggles, afflicting their souls, as did Martin Luther to cast himself upon Christ's righteousness.{DG 147.1}

There are many who think they can come to Jesus only in the way the child did who was possessed of the demon that threw him down and tore him as he was being led to the Saviour. You are not of the kind that should have any such conflicts and trials. Richard Baxter was distressed because he did not have such agonizing, humiliating views of himself as he thought he ought to have. But this was explained to his satisfaction at last and peace came to his heart.{DG 147.2}

There is no requirement for you to take on a burden for yourself, for you are Christ's property. He has you in His hand. His everlasting arms are about you. Your life has not been a life of sinfulness in the common acceptance of the term. You have a conscientious fear to do wrong, a principle in your heart to choose the right, and now you want to turn your face away from the briers and thorns to the flowers.{DG 147.3}

Let the eye be fixed on the Son of Righteousness. Do not make your dear, loving, heavenly Father a tyrant; but see His tenderness, His pity, His large, broad love, and His great compassion. His love exceeds that of a mother for her child. The mother may forget, yet will not I forget thee, saith the Lord. Oh, my dear, Jesus wants you to trust Him. May His blessing rest upon you in a rich measure is my earnest prayer.{DG 147.4}

You were born with an inheritance of discouragement, and you need constantly to be encouraging a hopeful state of feelings. You received from both father and mother a peculiar conscientiousness and also inherited from your mother a disposition to demerit self rather than to exalt self. A word moves you while a heavy judgment only is sufficient to move another of a different temperament. Were you situated where you knew you were helping others, however hard
the load, however taxing the labor, you would do everything with cheerfulness and distress yourself that you did nothing.{DG 147.5}

Samuel, who served God from his childhood, needed a very different discipline than one who had a set, stubborn, selfish will. Your childhood was not marked with grossness, although there were the errors of humanity in it. The whole matter has been laid open before me. I know you far better than you know yourself. God will help you to triumph over Satan if you will simply trust Jesus to fight these stern battles that you are wholly unable to fight in your finite strength.{DG 148.1}

You love Jesus and He loves you. Now just patiently trust in Him, saying over and over, Lord, I am Thine. Cast yourself heartily on Christ. It is not joy that is the evidence that you are a Christian. Your evidence is in a Thus saith the Lord. By faith, I lay you, my dear sister, on the bosom of Jesus Christ.{DG 148.2}

Read the following lines [from "Jesus Lover of My Soul"] and appropriate the sentiment as your own:

"Other refuge have I none,
Hangs my helpless soul on Thee;
Leave, O leave me not alone!
Still support and comfort me;
All my trust on Thee is stayed,
All my help from Thee I bring;
Cover my defenseless head
With the shadow of Thy wing.

Plenteous grace with Thee is found--
Grace to pardon all my sin;
Let the healing streams abound,
Make and keep me pure within;
Thou of life the Fountain art,
Freely let me take of Thee;
Spring Thou up within my heart,
Rise to all eternity." {DG 148.3}

I made two copies of the enclosed, one to send to you; but it was too poor, I thought, to be read, so laid it by and did not send it New Year's as I intended. I think you can read it holding it up to the light.--Letter 35, 1887.{DG 148.4}
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Focus on Jesus & the Bible promises of hope.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

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Edward F Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F Sutton (edited January 20, 2001).]

I got this from the pastors net a few days ago, it seems to fit in with what Brother Sutton just posted.

JESUS CHANGING OUR HEARTS IS LIKE REFINING SILVER

Some time ago, a few people met to study the scriptures. While reading the third chapter of Malachi, they came upon a remarkable expression in the third verse:

"And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver [Malachi 3:3)"

One lady proposed to visit a silversmith, and report to them on what he said about the subject. She went accordingly, and without telling the object of her errand, begged the silversmith to tell her about the process of refining> silver.

After he had fully described it to her, she asked, "But Sir, do you sit while the work of refining is going on?"

"Oh, yes madam," replied the silversmith; "I must sit with my eyes steadily fixed on the furnace, for if the time necessary for refining be exceeded in the slightest degree, the silver will be injured."

The lady at once saw the beauty, and comfort too, of the expression, "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver." God sees it needful to put His children into a furnace; His eye is steadily intent on the work of purifying, and His wisdom and love are both engaged in the best manner for us. Our trials do not come at random, and He will not let us be tested beyond what we can endure.

Before she left, the lady asked one final question, "When do you know the process is complete?"

"Why, that is quite simple," replied the silversmith. "When I can see my own image in the silver, the refining process is finished."
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Thanks Sandy Grignon
The above lady is the one that submitted it to the pastors net.
Gerry

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I reformatted it for you.

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited January 21, 2001).]

I think that one thing we must always remember is that we CANNOT make ourselves acceptable. Only Christ can work that miracle in our lives. Our duty appears to be only to accept and believe - to have faith in Him. We must seek Christ daily, if we do that, we cannot fail but to become more like Him. It may take a long time for the miracle to work in our lives - depending on how hard we fight the changes to our lives - but He will work the change. Jesus is the only one who is capable to "create in me a clean heart". Maybe it sounds like a trite answer, but we must "lean not on our own understanding" and to "cast all our cares upon Him".

It is also "by beholding that we become changed". I see this constantly, for example, we don't own a TV. However, I find that when I watch a movie or TV somewhere else, my attitude changes. I am different - and usually not in a good way. I also have observed this in others. My husband used to play computer games and after playing his attitude changed. He would swear more and get angry faster. "therefore brethren, whatsoever is pure, whatsoever is just . . . think on these things." Our task is to focus our eyes on Jesus, to behold Him daily, constantly.

When we seek Him with every problem, every concern, every question, and allow Him to lead our lives as His Will desires, then we will know what it is to be acceptable. Only the one who created us can change us to be acceptable in His sight.

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Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*

[This message has been edited by Mrs Sarah Moss (edited January 22, 2001).]

Barb, this question is in a lot of peoples minds for many different reasons?

Part of the Devils ploy is to make us all feel unworthy, and he accomplishes that through many different avenues.

So how do I get round these feelings?

Just by focusing on Jesus, through prayer and praise.

So what you need to help your friend with, is to establish with her a love for God, and you do that through your own experience.

When we come to understand the love and acceptance of God the Father, through Jesus Christ, then we learn to accept ourselves as we are, and then we allow other people to accept us.

A process for which there are no shortcuts, and much paticence and love is needed.

I wish you well with your friend.

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Be Still My Soul
Zita

I suggest that too many read the quote you set forth and determine that we as humans have to accomplish the purification before Christ can supply the sanctification. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Which part do you believe YOU must accomplish? Purification or sanctification? I suggest that the Grace of Christ provides both. So, therefore, I see no conflict as you suggest. I see only the gift of Grace.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." Jeremiah 13:23.

There is nothing we can do to purify our own hearts from sin or sanctify ourselves. God has promised to this for us. And that verse quoted at the beginning of this thread, properly read, indicates that both of these are accomplished for us by the grace of Jesus Christ.

But we must cooperate with God. He made us with freedom of choice, and He respects that freedom and refuses to violate it. This is the most important thing, and really the only thing, that we must do. We must choose to allow Him to work in and through us. And that does include obedience, and a continual choosing to obey His leading.

None of the deeds that we do in response to God's leading earn us anything, however they are the means of bringing us the abundant life He wants us to have. He does not ask us to work for Him because He needs our help. In fact, He could probably do a better job without us. He only asks us to do or not do anything for our own sakes, because He loves us and desires our greatest happiness. And since He made us, He knows far better than we do what will make us truly happy. Thus if we truly believe in Jesus and trust Him, we will do what He tells us, but not with the thought of appeasing Him or gaining His favor, or really out of any sense of obligation at all. Rather, our foremost thought will be appreciation for His great love for us, and for all He Himself does for us, and a desire to please Him and continue to enjoy fellowship with Him.

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

[This message has been edited by Cathy Sears (edited February 04, 2001).]