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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: asygo] #94228
01/04/08 05:40 AM
01/04/08 05:40 AM
Johann  Offline
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The lesson indicates the original disciples followed Jesus for selfish purposes. Can this be true? Why do I want to follow Jesus?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Johann] #94232
01/04/08 12:54 PM
01/04/08 12:54 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Pastor Johann,

I am not disagreeing with you, but where does it indicate in the lesson that the original disciples followed Jesus for selfish reasons?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Daryl] #94233
01/04/08 01:17 PM
01/04/08 01:17 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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The only place I can think of would be in relation to the deny himself words found in Matt. 16:24, 25; Mark 8:34, 35; and Luke 9:23 as brought out at the bottom of Wednesday's study.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Daryl] #94234
01/04/08 01:38 PM
01/04/08 01:38 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Friday's section contains a good question that I also want to ask here.

What is the difference between discipleship and church membership?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Daryl] #94240
01/04/08 04:52 PM
01/04/08 04:52 PM
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Dora  Offline
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Daryl, I don't know if it refers in the lesson to any selfish reasons the disciples may have had. But, in Matt.20:20, Mrs. Zebedee had great ambitions for her boys, and though she was the one who asked for special privileges, her sons did not reject her thoughts. Also, for whatever reason, in v.24, 'when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.' Were they also wanting special places? It does not say.

Of course, all of this was happening because they did not at all understand that Jesus' kingdom was not of this world. So, is it possible, that although the disciples did love and admire Jesus, they may also have been expecting certain "privileges" in His earthly kingdom which they were hoping He would soon establish?


Dora
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Dora] #94250
01/04/08 07:24 PM
01/04/08 07:24 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Is it possible for us who are selfish sinners to start to follow Jesus for anything less than selfish reasons? Is it wrong or hypocritical to start ones journey with Jesus for selfish reasons?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: vastergotland] #94251
01/04/08 07:26 PM
01/04/08 07:26 PM
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vastergotland  Offline
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Church membership obligates you for two hours every weekend and possibly an hour on a weekday evening.
Dicipleship is a lifestyle.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Daryl] #94256
01/04/08 08:54 PM
01/04/08 08:54 PM
Johann  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
Pastor Johann,

I am not disagreeing with you, but where does it indicate in the lesson that the original disciples followed Jesus for selfish reasons?


This is what Dr. Bruce Cameron says about next week's lesson:

Copr. 2008, Bruce N. Cameron, J.D. All scripture references are to the New International Version (NIV), copr. 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society, unless otherwise noted. Quotations from the NIV are used by permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers. Suggested answers are found within parentheses. The lesson assumes the teacher uses a blackboard or some other visual aid. This lesson can be found at: <url:http://www.GoBible.Org/study/485.php>
Introduction: You have probably heard more than one Christian say "I want to follow Jesus." Likely, you have said that very thing. How does that work today? In Jesus' time, the disciples literally followed Him around. What are we to do today? We learned last week that the disciples' original goal in following Jesus was self-interest. It made the disciples seem more like us! In what other ways were they like us? What about rivalry among disciples? Did that exist in the time of Jesus? Let's jump into the Bible and explore how we can be a better disciple now!


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: Johann] #94258
01/04/08 09:06 PM
01/04/08 09:06 PM
Johann  Offline
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Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
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Here is how Dr. Cameron comes to this conclusion in the present lesson:

3. Read John 1:29-31. Who did John the Baptist identify as the Messiah? (Jesus.)


4. Read John 1:35-37. With this background, tell me what you think motivated these two disciples to change allegiance from John to Jesus? (They heard John say Jesus was the "Lamb of God" - which meant He was the Messiah. They wanted to follow the Messiah, not the one who was preparing the way for the Messiah.)


5. Read John 1:40-41. Who seems to be motivating the switch of allegiance? Who is the moving force? (The disciples themselves.)


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 1 - An Overview of DISCIPLESHIP [Re: vastergotland] #94264
01/04/08 11:57 PM
01/04/08 11:57 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Is it possible for us who are selfish sinners to start to follow Jesus for anything less than selfish reasons?

No. We are selfish by nature, so God makes the initial contact.

 Originally Posted By: västergötland
Is it wrong or hypocritical to start ones journey with Jesus for selfish reasons?

No. But if one stays in that condition, it will prove eternally fatal.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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