Sounds about right to me.

And I think it's fairly clear the "same catagory" would mean other christians. I could be way off on this one (please don't hesitate to point it out when I am), but that's what I think. I don't think muslims would be part of the same cagagory, or the hindu's for that matter. It seems clear that the christians are the remnant, and the rest will suffer His wrath! Could be wrong on that one, but my church taught me the only "right" way is the christian way, SDA in particular. And thankfully I'm a part of that, so I'm saved for sure. Plus I've been baptized, and pray, and ask for forgiveness, and Jesus is my personal saviour. I know I'll be looking for all you good people in the new world, can't wait to get there.

You're being a bith harsh, I fear.

That said, Adventist church teaching is of a remnant church that teaches keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus. So we would look for a church that still teaches the same truth as that taught at the beginning of the Christian era to find a "remnant" church. And I think that's fair enough.

Otoh, the Adventist church (certainly the conservative portion) has developed a lot of traditions that some seem to hold in reverence as though handed down directly from Sinai. (e.g. order of service, singing only from the hymnal, certain ways of keeping Sabbath, etc. etc.

We need to appreciate the difference between what is actual biblical teaching and what is tradition. (I've faced Adventists who staunchly defend traditions that are not supported in the Bible even when confronted with biblical evidence to the contrary.)

We each need to come to the place where we truly keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus so we may be a part of the remnant people of God.

Will you join me in that goal, Darius?

You've been duped.

Whether one is a part of the remnant depends on when one dies. We are all part of the family of God.

Asaygo,

I have, really? I've been duped? How can you know for sure? Are you able to tell me that is not what God wants, for me? Did YOU ask God about that, in regards to my life, and the plan He has for ME? Because if you did, that's cool, and I'd like to know the response He gave you. And if not, then how about you not say things you don't know.

You see, I keep going back to the same point (as I'm sure you've noticed). YOU nor anybody else on this planet, can tell me if I'm wrong or right, in the eyes of GOD. Only He can judge me, know if things are right or wrong. He has not given YOU(nor any chruch nor any person) the right to judge what's right or wrong, with anything having to do with me.

How about we get together and ask God Himself, we could do it together, so we would know that we got the same answer. Oh, that doesn't really work now does it. So, while you apparently feel that OUR chruch lied to me, you say I was duped. And I say, only God can be the judge of weather or not I was "duped".

I think you've been duped, but then what does that count for, either in the eyes of God, or you, NOTHING! Yes, that's right, it means nothing, coming from me. Nor from the cop down the street, nor a federal judge, nor my pastor, nor your church, not even Satan. Judgement ONLY counts when the Lord does it, so let's be careful making judgements about other people's lives. And since you can't PROVE that I was duped, it can only be a judgement that you've made.

As Darius might say, since I can't reason with you, this conversation is over. But I'll go a step further, and work hard, the way God wants me to, to help you see the light He has shown ME. Since I talk with Him, and we are close, I'm certain that is what He wants me to do. He has asked me to show you the light, through me. So start looking, and let's get a step closer to heaven, shall we?

Well done, fun2believe. It was fun reading this.

Yes, you have been duped.

You said:
That statement contradicts the Bible. (Check Romans if you're not sure.)

Which leads to a contradiction with one of your other statements:
Your statements are self-contradictory. Hence, you are duped, one way or the other.

Personally, I think you are correct that the Bible is authoritative and definitive. In that case, you have either been duped into thinking that the Bible supports your contention that "I'm a part of that, so I'm saved for sure," or you have been duped into thinking that "the only 'right' way is the christian way, SDA in particular."

So I cannot take any credit for this. I'm just bringing it all to your attention. What you do with that light is up to you.

I'm still waiting for your response to the first time I pointed out your inconsistency. In case you lost it, you can find it in the Comparing Christ's Character to Our Character thread (click here ).

Or you can deny that there is any inconsistency, and console yourself with the thought that I'm just in the mood to judge you. But as you point out, what we think of each other really has no bearing on the Judgment.


Yes, many of Darius' conversations seem to end that way. But then, they can't really be called conversations since they are mostly him accusing everyone he disagrees with of being wrong/biased/duped, despite a noticeable lack of references and citations. At least when I contend that you are duped, I show you documentation.

I hope you're not following in his footsteps. One way to avoid that fate is to at least make an attempt to explain yourself with commonly accepted sources of truth, rather than simply bolstering your assertions with more vehement assertions. A good way to start is by quoting the Bible, which we both agree is an authoritative source of God's light. God may have shown you light apart from that, but your words won't help me because they are not authoritative to me. If you want to help me by showing me light that I will accept, show me a verse.

Or you could assume that fun2 was ironic or sarcastic in the first quote. That is even more likely considering the difference between that paragraph and others he/she has made, such as the second one you quoted.

No, you're talking past each other, Asygo and fun2believe, and you're barely half right, fun2believe, with your response.

Asygo, (leaving your latest post to be dealt with by fun2believe; I agree with you re Darius!) it is with assurance of eternal life we can claim Jesus as our personal Saviour: assurance of salvation now and in the judgement, so long as we daily commit ourselves personally to Jesus as Lord of our lives. The CHURCH cannot save (infamous RC heresy...to the contrary), especially the SDA church, which fun2believe isn't asserting in the first place.

Fun2believe, giving the appearance of believing one is once saved, only saved, especially when that notion is farthest from one's mind, produces your reaction to Asygo when he appears to accuse you of not relying on your daily commitment to Jesus, due to what I perceive is his misperception of your statement. Your right to hold your individual understanding of God, as fleshed out by study and sharing with others of like faith, is indeed inalienable, but I take it you do not exclude the duty and role of (y)our brethern and sisters to correct us on sins in our lives when done in Christian love for us?

Darius, shame on you for delighting in two fellow Adventists mistakenly upsetting each other, or did you think their exchange was based on correctly understanding each other??!...That you delight in the freedom of your own point of view against everyone else here is beside the point.

As for Christiandom consisting of Christians of differing viewpoints: of course. How they relate to the everlasting gospel mentioned in Rev 14, and how "remnant" status relates to the living and not the dead, is where today's multitude of Christian churches sort out their priorities with God in these end times: they virtually all agree these are the end times in one way or another.

Remnant people/remnant church? One and the same, unless one doesn't view various churches as holding "another gospel" to the everlasting gospel - including possibly one's own church: how many are united in their gospel message? As a quite side note: Yes, the mark of the beast must be manifest in the end by a religious power usurping God's power on earth, more than mere unfaithfulness! The critical mass from which a remnant remains isn't the grouping of Christians per se: that way, according to prophecy, there'll never be a remnant of Christians in a pagan world in our future, since the enemies of God and his people shall be professing Christians!...The item from which a remnant remains in the last days is the gospel message itself: buildings never were the heart of the institution, but the message is, of course.

Remnant truths are the present truth to be dug from the Bible and Christian writings if it be found in the latter, and Sister White lauded the 1888 messengers as men sent by God to deliver the "third angels' message in verity". It isn't set in stone in those recent books, either, for we are to thrash it out and lift it up for the world, after & beyond Christiandom, to see. The 1888 message was called "the beginning of the loud cry": we still have to find the rest of it once we've retrieved that "beginning" (it is "lost" today because it's disputed, and the formal message today is the same as other churches' message which would be the case after only we had the 1888 message). It is all only about Jesus, actually, after all, so plenty of joyful study and prayer and discussion can be had about our Saviour.

Justification by faith IS assurance of salvation, but daily commitment follows simply because that commitment is the exercise of the mind of Christ which that justification recreates in us for doing righteousness like he did - we with him, now. I'll stop there, for sure.

Quite. Possibly.