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Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: asygo] #95383
02/07/08 07:12 PM
02/07/08 07:12 PM
F
fun2believe  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 113
California, USA
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,, you said that was the "trick". Here's your words "I think there are three categories: right, wrong, irrelevant. The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item. And things are not necessarily categorized the same way for each person."

You implied (copied above for reference) that WE need to figure out how God categorizes each item. So then you changed your thought pattern, by asking "who said I should figure it out (once again, copied from above for reference) "Who said God wants YOU to figure it out? You JUST got done telling me I have to figure out which is which!!!!!!!!!! <"Perhaps He already knows the trick, and is just waiting for someone to listen to Him." >

And it's hard to believe that you would even consider that God might be trying to figure anything out (He is after all, omni-everything). Does God really play tricks on us? IF so, then I'd like nothing to do with Him. You must be talking to some other God, because the one I love would NEVER trick anyone, not even Satan. There's no trickery (except in this chruch).

And if you want to play word games, you are wrong about nobody getting hurt from jumping off a cliff. While it's true that it's the stopping and not the falling, people have died from cardiac events DURING the fall. So, be careful with such strong words, they are powerful things, and can do as much harm as good.

I don't accuse your standards of being faulty. But here(or there as it may be) you sit (yeah it's a guess, you probably arent' standing) and accuse my standards of being sub-standard? Well, don't worry, you'll get your time in front of the judge as well. I'll just not be the one doing the judging.

And if you have a hard time telling black from white, you should ask God for some glasses. He's shown us the difference, you seem to be the only one having a hard time with colors, I learned that one in kindergarten, and sabbath school.

If the size matters, that's gotta be a "you" thing as well. God does NOT have a preset number of people to save. He's not counting out just enough room for all the "good" people in heaven. There's PLENTY of room in heaven, and if not, God can make more room. I don't think we need to push and fight in line. With your line of reasoning, size does matter, sorry to hear that! Usually it's people with "small" things that have a problem with size.

I know that God accepts all sizes. All colors. All faith's (even those with NO faith). ALL those that would only accept what He has provided for us. It's got nothing to do with anything earthly. I don't NEED to seek out the rules. I'm here, on a mission from God, to help you see that it's not the "rules" that matter. It's how we actually treat God. As you have done this, the least, unto my brother; you have done this unto me. This applies to "rules" as much as it does in how we treat other people.

IF we know God, we'll know what He want's us to do. If we only know the dogma of this church, we will only know what the people that run it want us to know. That is not what God wants from us, is it? No, obviously it's not.

Ask God to show you the way.

Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: fun2believe] #95392
02/07/08 09:44 PM
02/07/08 09:44 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,, you said that was the "trick". Here's your words "I think there are three categories: right, wrong, irrelevant. The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item. And things are not necessarily categorized the same way for each person."

You implied (copied above for reference) that WE need to figure out how God categorizes each item. So then you changed your thought pattern, by asking "who said I should figure it out (once again, copied from above for reference) "Who said God wants YOU to figure it out? You JUST got done telling me I have to figure out which is which!!!!!!!!!! <"Perhaps He already knows the trick, and is just waiting for someone to listen to Him." >

The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item.

Problem is, you got caught up with the "trick" (as Darius did) and missed God. What you need to do is learn God's categorization for you. Will you let Him tell you?

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
God might be trying to figure anything out
Does God really play tricks on us?
the one I love would NEVER trick anyone

Uhhh, there's been a comprehension malfunction.

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
And if you want to play word games

No, you are the one playing word games. You really think I meant "trick" in the way you describe? This reminds me of your complete mangling of Christ's words in the To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? thread (click here).

And in that sense, your posts have taken a definite Darian flavor as of late. By beholding you are changed.

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
you are wrong about nobody getting hurt from jumping off a cliff. While it's true that it's the stopping and not the falling, people have died from cardiac events DURING the fall.

Cardiac arrest for leaving the cliff area? For going really fast? No, those can be done safely and without fear leading to cardiac arrest.

However, cardiac arrest can occur for fear of...... the sudden stop. Take that away, and there's no problem. The trip is probably quite enjoyable.

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
you seem to be the only one having a hard time with colors, I learned that one in kindergarten, and sabbath school.

If the size matters, that's gotta be a "you" thing as well.

He's not counting out just enough room for all the "good" people in heaven.

Usually it's people with "small" things that have a problem with size.

This is the kind of discussion and debate you learned from the one you love?

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
I know that God accepts all sizes. All colors. All faith's (even those with NO faith).

How do you know this?

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
I don't NEED to seek out the rules. I'm here, on a mission from God, to help you see that it's not the "rules" that matter. It's how we actually treat God.

Could how we treat God include being loyal to Him and His laws? How about doing things He likes because we are His friends?

 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
Ask God to show you the way.

He has, through His Word.

Which reminds me. I'm still waiting for your interpretation of "Thy Word is truth" in the To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? thread (click here) and your response to our discussion of sources of truth in the Comparing Christ's Character to Our Character thread (click here ).


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: fun2believe] #95393
02/07/08 09:54 PM
02/07/08 09:54 PM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,114
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: fun2believe
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,, you said that was the "trick". Here's your words "I think there are three categories: right, wrong, irrelevant. The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item. And things are not necessarily categorized the same way for each person."

You implied (copied above for reference) that WE need to figure out how God categorizes each item. So then you changed your thought pattern, by asking "who said I should figure it out (once again, copied from above for reference) "Who said God wants YOU to figure it out? You JUST got done telling me I have to figure out which is which!!!!!!!!!! <"Perhaps He already knows the trick, and is just waiting for someone to listen to Him." >

And it's hard to believe that you would even consider that God might be trying to figure anything out (He is after all, omni-everything). Does God really play tricks on us? IF so, then I'd like nothing to do with Him. You must be talking to some other God, because the one I love would NEVER trick anyone, not even Satan. There's no trickery (except in this chruch).

And if you want to play word games, you are wrong about nobody getting hurt from jumping off a cliff. While it's true that it's the stopping and not the falling, people have died from cardiac events DURING the fall. So, be careful with such strong words, they are powerful things, and can do as much harm as good.

I don't accuse your standards of being faulty. But here(or there as it may be) you sit (yeah it's a guess, you probably arent' standing) and accuse my standards of being sub-standard? Well, don't worry, you'll get your time in front of the judge as well. I'll just not be the one doing the judging.

And if you have a hard time telling black from white, you should ask God for some glasses. He's shown us the difference, you seem to be the only one having a hard time with colors, I learned that one in kindergarten, and sabbath school.

If the size matters, that's gotta be a "you" thing as well. God does NOT have a preset number of people to save. He's not counting out just enough room for all the "good" people in heaven. There's PLENTY of room in heaven, and if not, God can make more room. I don't think we need to push and fight in line. With your line of reasoning, size does matter, sorry to hear that! Usually it's people with "small" things that have a problem with size.

I know that God accepts all sizes. All colors. All faith's (even those with NO faith). ALL those that would only accept what He has provided for us. It's got nothing to do with anything earthly. I don't NEED to seek out the rules. I'm here, on a mission from God, to help you see that it's not the "rules" that matter. It's how we actually treat God. As you have done this, the least, unto my brother; you have done this unto me. This applies to "rules" as much as it does in how we treat other people.

IF we know God, we'll know what He want's us to do. If we only know the dogma of this church, we will only know what the people that run it want us to know. That is not what God wants from us, is it? No, obviously it's not.

Ask God to show you the way.



You say you love God, but when you truly love, the love you have sets 'rules' for you that you want to follow. You dont cheat on your beloved, you dont lie to your beloved, you dont steal from your beloved, you dont forget the special day you have to spend time together, or spend it with someone else, you let go of all the former 'flings and attractions' that you use to love without even thinking twice. All because you have true love for your beloved...

The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:34-40


Last edited by Richard; 02/07/08 09:57 PM.
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Rick H] #95394
02/07/08 09:59 PM
02/07/08 09:59 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Asygo, you are confusing yourself. That's quite a trick.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Darius] #95405
02/07/08 10:54 PM
02/07/08 10:54 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
We got to love the ditches, or perhaps the road itself is slipery as if iced with superchilled rain. Some sit in one ditch and others in the other and then the two sides throws mud bombs on eachother. What do we think we are doing? A dramatisation of the Great War battle at Somme?


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Rick H] #95432
02/08/08 05:10 PM
02/08/08 05:10 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Richard
Define a 'pagan market' as I havent seen one in my neighborhood....


1 Corinthians 10:28
But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Yes, that's the passage I had in mind (verses 23 thru 33). Although, I was thinking of a different verse: "Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

So, is it a sin to buy and eat it? Or, is it a sin to offend a weaker brother? What is gray about this situation?

Again, like fun2believe, I suspect there is plenty of room for gray and all the other colors in the spectrum. Not everything in life is easily classified as black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, righteous or sinful. A class in situational ethics makes it clear that circumstance may permit something not acceptable under different circumstances. Which opens a can of worms.

Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Mountain Man] #95553
02/10/08 11:58 PM
02/10/08 11:58 PM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,114
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
 Originally Posted By: Richard
Define a 'pagan market' as I havent seen one in my neighborhood....


1 Corinthians 10:28
But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

Yes, that's the passage I had in mind (verses 23 thru 33). Although, I was thinking of a different verse: "Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

So, is it a sin to buy and eat it? Or, is it a sin to offend a weaker brother? What is gray about this situation?

Again, like fun2believe, I suspect there is plenty of room for gray and all the other colors in the spectrum. Not everything in life is easily classified as black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, righteous or sinful. A class in situational ethics makes it clear that circumstance may permit something not acceptable under different circumstances. Which opens a can of worms.


I guess I am the kind that in "situational ethics" I choose from what I call my 'core beliefs' that guide my choices, as in South Florida we were living in corruption and the temptation of 'easy money', not taking a class. It has happened many times where everything was on the line as I grew up in the fast paced life you could take right out of "Miami Vice". Facing your own mortality has a way of bringing things into focus very quickly. One could live on the edge, as some of my friends did, they could make a cool bundle just for making a quick dropoff at the docks, no questions asked, or easily become involved in many other illegal endouvours just by being with certain people, or a drive on South Beach could quickly turn into a life or death choice between letting someone cut you off or take your parking spot or confronting them and guns being used. When your life might depend on what you choose a few hours, minutes, or seconds before, things become very black and white, with very little gray........

Our outlook was more the 'devil take the hindmost', as the temptation of 'easy money', or other issues became 'stumbling blocks'for many orf my friends and I am talking about fellow Adventist not just the 'kids on the block'.....

Last edited by Richard; 02/11/08 11:34 AM.
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Rick H] #95569
02/11/08 03:55 PM
02/11/08 03:55 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Wow! I guess I wasn't thinking of drug trafficking. I see nothing "gray" about the illegal drug business and use. For me, I also see nothing "gray" about other "drugs" - alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc.

Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Mountain Man] #95570
02/11/08 03:59 PM
02/11/08 03:59 PM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,114
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Wow! I guess I wasn't thinking of drug trafficking. I see nothing "gray" about the illegal drug business and use. For me, I also see nothing "gray" about other "drugs" - alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc.


So now you see why, the hair on the back of my neck starts tingling when someone says, 'oh thats a gray area' because thats what we use to hear or say, right before we did the deed we knew was wrong but wanted to do anyway or the payoff was too tempting.....

Of course I have to visit some in jail now, so prison ministry has a very personal meaning to me....

Last edited by Richard; 02/11/08 04:06 PM.
Re: Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...? [Re: Rick H] #95574
02/11/08 04:22 PM
02/11/08 04:22 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Good point. But would you agree that just because I am clear on what is right and wrong, black and white, that it doesn't mean there is no room for gray areas?

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