The issue of the cattle/sheep ranchers and Oil companies are all together in working with the BLM to destroy what is left of the wild horses in the United States. There is estimated to be about 17,000 wild horses running through eight states that are left. Each region wants to remove them so there will be no more wild horses left.

The danger in this is the blood lines and genetics. The need for cross breeding to prevent inbreeding is necessary, but those that care nothing about the wild horses care less about blood lines.

The issue of "feral" given as a reason to rid the land of horses is questionable. I may disagree with the years as with the age of the earth, but the migration of horses as has been backtracked shows clear points that the origin of horses came from the America's.

More important the wild horses are as much a historic value as the Statue of Liberty in that without the horses we would never have been able to grow as a nation as we did. I still remember as a child our postal service with the emblem of the "pony express" logo to this day. the change to the bald eagle was a joke when one realizes that there were less than 100 left of the bald eagles by that time throughout the United States. Just a month ago I saw my first bald eagle as I was driving down toward the main highway. First time in this region in 60 years.

Now there is a bald eagle family living in New York City central park spotted after a 50 year absence.

Three important responsibilities came out from the Garden of Eden: marriage, Sabbath and Dominion of the animals:

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

If anything mankind has destroyed and is the worse predator tan any living creature on earth.

Colin you talked about Christian Stewardship. It has been anything but Christian Stewardship. It has been a systematic destruction and slaughter of animals and land since the fall of man.

If anything people of the earth and since the beginning of Christianity, the Christians have been in the lead of destroying God's earth and animals since the fall and beginning of sin.

If you look at the Christians of the religious right they have been the ones that believe we have no problems, no global warming and no problems with loss of animals. They are the ones crossing this nation that killed and killed and killed everything along its path.

We see this with the buffalo and the wolves and the coyotes, etc., they destroyed anything that came across its path and got in their way.

Hunting is a sport, a form of killing something that has no defense against the hoards of dogs and man on their horses to kill a little animal no more than the size of a large cat. You call the Christian Stewardship, I call that cruelty and abuse.

I know people here in California that are fighting for their sport against those that want to end such horrific deaths these little animals suffer and this year it looks like they will see an end to this sport.

Sorry hunting is not Christian Stewardship, but a form of old values of how to cull things they do not want.

As I said there are many other options in how to resolve unwanted problem animals that are humane and follow the responsibility in which God placed upon us to care for His created creatures He entrusted to our care.

Thanks for that further update - where did you get your figures from if National Geographic knows all about it and has bigger figures? The mustang is indeed a national and not just a natural heritage. It's economic value is the excuse which is no excuse. It does appear to be getting desperate now. The gathering & eventually indirect slaughter of mustangs for dog meat is really bad commerce - but what's new in American 'livestock' industry?!

I don't know much at all of the American religious right, other than that they are now pulling out of politics once more, it appears - an online article in the Review reports such. Of course the religious right has been active in politics for decades, if not more than a century, over there: I've largely ignored them, as the quietly reserved, British Christian heritage is being decimated in its own country by the government left, right and centre since the last 15 years: they do it slowly over here!

Chistianity here doesn't go political like 'your' lot do! It's only a public voice from the two most senior Archbishops of the Church of England (C of E), of Canterbury and of York, as well as the RC Cardinal of Westminster, who looks after the entire British Isles' Catholics, in their measured, official statments and sermons: they officially speak for the nation in Christian terms and get their constitutional and customary, respectively, media publicity. Also the vital 8 or so C of E Bishops in the House of Lords in Parliament. We're a Christian nation here, and even with an established church, the Monarch - and her church - are now happily, but definitely, constitutionally banned from being Roman Catholic!

That's the way to do it with church and state, you see, with occasional weaknesses in church leadership along side sometimes worse political leadership! I refer to the present incumbants - as well as Blair, who have clashed, but both now are poor leaders.

I did read today, on the Adventist Review online, that the Episcopal Church has lost up to 70,000 of its members to the newly formed Anglican Church of North America, in protest at women and practising gay clergy. It's about time, I'd say, as the Archbishop of Canterbury isn't liked by the conservative wing of his church in many places...I'm sure this development can be discussed in an appropriate thread somewhere.

As for Christian stewardship, moderation is the watchword, of course, but you've still obviously missed the point: I don't know what happens in California..., but in Great Britain there is economic damage to agriculture!! - hence, daily hunts, basically at any time of day or night, are a customary emergency call by farmers.

Foxes are also the complete opposite of an endangered species here - their necessary culling has been licensed for centuries and been regulated by law too: and don't forget, they're well known to be wily creatures: yes, they steal & destroy farm assets. No-one thinks they look ugly, either: altogether, it's a local community topic of humour.

There's NO sport involved in fox hunting - since you think that it is, you...and here I speak kindly: you clearly haven't any idea what's involved: the hunters are professionals - the dogs and their masters, who operate an industry of farm animal, ie. carcass, hygiene as well. Political meddling over the decades, has 9 years ago brought an industry to its knees.

Are you aware, before it was unconstitutionally banned, it was legally licensed for the winter months only. That needs reiterating. Also, never forget, human rights - I won't go into their general demerits, here! - are not animal rights: our faithful dominion over the animals says so.

Until you can show a knowledge of fox hunting, matching what it actually involves - instead of the propaganda you're reportng, you're out of line in condemning it as not being of a Christian culture, though you are entitled to your misguided opinion. Yes, British culture is Christian, so beware of what you offend in your zeal against what is necessary & humane killing of animals.

Hi Colin:

Dog food for dogs went out the door when the price of horse meat went up and being bought by Belgium meat companies for European human consumption. Then in 2007 the three Belgium companies where shut down due to abuse of the horses during slaughter, abuse of the environment and other health safety issues for human meat eating.

They tried to keep open the plants, but the courts said no so they moved to Mexico and Canada to continue their horrific cruelty of the horses through slaughter. Since that time in 2008 two of the Canadian plants were shut down for the same reason the US ones were shut down. Now there is only one plant taking US horses for slaughter and there is still the one in Mexico, but it has been proven the other plants that are suppose to only take Mexican horses are killing US ones with knives instead of the captive bolt gun.

The horror of the captive bolt gun is a whole other issue of abuse and torture for the horses as horses are not designed for assembly line slaughter as are cows, thus the person who administers the captive bolt hits the horses many times in different parts of the body before it goes down and the horse suffers in horrible pain until it is knocked out.

Captive bolts do not kill the horse, but render the horse unconscious while it is strung up by the back leg and then its throat is cut. They say this is necessary so that all the blood will come out of the horse as horses have double the blood than cows and if the horse is dead the blood does not clean out of the body as it should.

No I do not know the whole issue of the killing of the foxes in your country, but I am sure there would be a better way as we do with what we call feral cats. We trap them in cages and take them to a vet clinic where they are sterilized and allowed back out in the wild to live out their days. This keeps the population down and less animals being born.

Nature is a balance and there are many options other than sending a bunch of dogs after a little fox to kill it is a far better alternative with those options.

Just because it has been the way things have been done in the past does not mean that changes can be done and a better way to resolve the issue of the foxes can be found.

Now do not lump me in with PETA, HSUS or Animal Rights League, I have no part with them, but I do believe that we should first think of humane ways to resolve a problem than to just hunt down and kill things.

That is what is going on with the wild horses. This is what is going on with the wild burro's. I do not even agree that anything needs to be done when one considers there are only about 17,000 give or take horses out in the wild roaming. That is about 2,173 horses per the 8 states out west. Consider that with 21.5 million acres of land and what is causing the damage?

Surely not the horses, but other interests that have money in their pocket to buy out the BLM and put more money in their pockets to keep their jobs.

I have not question that people need to protect their assets, but there is a good way and a bad way to do that. Again, sending out a bunch of killing dogs to hunt down a little fox that only crime is being at the wrong place at the wrong time and being killed through a torturous death is not my idea of humane.

As for threats I get all the time from the pro slaughter people all the time. Has not deterred me from still speaking my mind.

Hi Colin:

Dog food for dogs went out the door when the price of horse meat went up and being bought by Belgium meat companies for European human consumption. Then in 2007 the three Belgium companies where shut down due to abuse of the horses during slaughter, abuse of the environment and other health safety issues for human meat eating.

They tried to keep open the plants, but the courts said no so they moved to Mexico and Canada to continue their horrific cruelty of the horses through slaughter. Since that time in 2008 two of the Canadian plants were shut down for the same reason the US ones were shut down. Now there is only one plant taking US horses for slaughter and there is still the one in Mexico, but it has been proven the other plants that are suppose to only take Mexican horses are killing US ones with knives instead of the captive bolt gun.

The horror of the captive bolt gun is a whole other issue of abuse and torture for the horses as horses are not designed for assembly line slaughter as are cows, thus the person who administers the captive bolt hits the horses many times in different parts of the body before it goes down and the horse suffers in horrible pain until it is knocked out.

Captive bolts do not kill the horse, but render the horse unconscious while it is strung up by the back leg and then its throat is cut. They say this is necessary so that all the blood will come out of the horse as horses have double the blood than cows and if the horse is dead the blood does not clean out of the body as it should.

No I do not know the whole issue of the killing of the foxes in your country, but I am sure there would be a better way as we do with what we call feral cats. We trap them in cages and take them to a vet clinic where they are sterilized and allowed back out in the wild to live out their days. This keeps the population down and less animals being born.

Nature is a balance and there are many options other than sending a bunch of dogs after a little fox to kill it is a far better alternative with those options.

Just because it has been the way things have been done in the past does not mean that changes can be done and a better way to resolve the issue of the foxes can be found.

Now do not lump me in with PETA, HSUS or Animal Rights League, I have no part with them, but I do believe that we should first think of humane ways to resolve a problem than to just hunt down and kill things.

That is what is going on with the wild horses. This is what is going on with the wild burro's. I do not even agree that anything needs to be done when one considers there are only about 17,000 give or take horses out in the wild roaming. That is about 2,173 horses per the 8 states out west. Consider that with 21.5 million acres of land and what is causing the damage?

Surely not the horses, but other interests that have money in their pocket to buy out the BLM and put more money in their pockets to keep their jobs.

I have not question that people need to protect their assets, but there is a good way and a bad way to do that. Again, sending out a bunch of killing dogs to hunt down a little fox that only crime is being at the wrong place at the wrong time and being killed through a torturous death is not my idea of humane.

As for threats I get all the time from the pro slaughter people all the time. Has not deterred me from still speaking my mind.

Hi Colin:

Read the Wikipedia website regarding fox hunting. Let me know where they are wrong and have misled me to understand about fox hunting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_hunting

I understand some farmers may have their own hunting issues to resolve the fox problem, but is not part of the bigger issue of sport hunting.

Cheers, I'm looking into it: is that free-editing page where you gained your info till now, or somewhere else?

Hi Colin:

It is a combination of years of information I have gathered and learned from friends in England and elsewhere, but it is about as current info as I understand it at this point.

I know that the fox hunting was banned in England as I knew that Prince Charles was a avid horse rider in both fox hunting as well as polo. He had expressed his dismay at the ban as I recalled. I know he threatened back in 2002 to leave England if the ban went through, but alas the last I heard he is still there despite the banning.

I would be interested in your response.

Hunting of all sorts was a sport in past reigns, pre-dating Victoria, etc. The modern form today, as expressed to the Burns Enquiry (seems so long ago now!...) by a Hunt Joint Master, is working dogs and hunters for protection of private property at the landowner's request.

The weekend rides are a show of support for this community action protecting private land, and the sport as seen today is permission from some land owners for the ride to cross their land. Some certainly do not grant permission!

You don't like Prince Charles, or just his support of fox hunting?

The ban itself is political, not cultural, and is unconstitutional, since the Parliament Act is again political, not constitutional: the subtle constitutional set-up in GB has suffered enormously in the 20th century, with the House of Commons lording it over the House of Lords merely for its own gain.

Basically, in 1911 the annual budget, the Finance Bill, was withheld from the Lords for debate to secure its passage, but the reasoning publicised since then that the Commons is elected and the Lords isn't, so has the upper hand, is farcical!! The UK isn't the US, so should be allowed to be itself! The Lords doesn't secure its sovereignty from the people via elections, but from the Queen, as a matter of history and wisdom of experience, and title. It's also this title which the opposition to fox hunting is built on - political opponents include hard-line socialists.

In Germany the Bundesrat can block the bills of the Bundestag under the democratic label...: this argument is alien to British culture, since we have a constitutional monarchy. Restricting the House of Lords as much as is done now is going too far, and should be reduced. We've a politically incorrect constitution, from beginning to end, but its being abused very badly; just now we're getting equal competition for how badly it can be done from your current foreign imposter in the White House.

I don't think the House of Lords qualifies for any restrictions - the liberal media is the back bone of abuse...

This restriction is the basis of the ban on hunting with dogs, since the Parliament Act was invoked against the Lords to pass it. It's just another piece of the puzzle that's gathering shape for another civil war, with concealed and lawful 'civil disobedience' already taking place. It's unknown quite how many are constitutionally objecting to paying and consistently not paying the licence fee for the BBC and tv usage..., etc. The BBC just the other month announced it was reigning back just a bit on its programme making...!

That wikipedia article is typically academic and thus lacking some vital reality, leaving out the lives of the hunting community and what makes them tick. Hunts have expanded indeed since the ban was imposed, and the majority of the populace opposes what the House of Commons unilaterally has done.

The peoples of Britain (we are four nations) oppose the Commons on the death penalty, too, but that is ignored by politicians. Not the first time in the last century we've had abuse of power here...! It costs at least £20,000 to challenge the government in court...! Money and title is power here - but there's more of it opposed to politics than politics possesses, and it's biding its time!!

Sorry for the diversion into British culture and constitutional issues: being British is just more difficult, these days!

It is difficult no matter where one lives these days and I suspect it is going to get worse no matter where one lives. There will be ups and downs, but the winding down of earth is taking place everywhere.

I will be going to surgery on the 8th and not sure when I will be back to post again after that date, so you will not see anymore posts after the 7th.

When I was a young girl, many, many years ago I had a crush on Prince Charles. Despite his ears I liked his personality and use to dream about meeting and maybe even to marry, but that was far from reality.

I respect him in some ways regarding the environment, but there were other things such as fox hunting I did not like.

My father grew up on a farm and hunted for food with his gun and dogs. That I can understand. Hunting as a sport I do not understand. To make an excuse of fox hunting as a pest is poor at best when there are more humane ways to resolve the so called fox issue.

As stated with Wikipedia by one person more foxes are killed on the road than with hunting so thus the pest problem is really not an issue. There has been many times damage to personal property due to fox hunting as well as even dogs have turned on each other because of the sent and smell of blood during the chase.

There are some things that need to be put away in this world that are not necessary and serve no purpose other than for the thrill of the sport and the chase to kill something. How anyone can find that fun is beyond my imagination.

I have as much problems with rodeo's here in the United States and the abuse and cruelty to the animals all in the name of sports.

There was a time when the Hispanic's use to have horse tripping as a sport and it was outlawed in California at least.

I find people who call themselves Christians and enjoy such sports as a contradiction to the responsibility that God has placed upon us to care for His living creatures. To treat them humanely and allow them to have their place in this world whether domestic or wild.

I suspect with my own imminent possibility of death from surgery the issue of life and death is nearer to me than I care to speak about. I hate the thought of anything dying before its time and death itself is the enemy of life brought on because of sin.

With that the knowledge that there will be much pain after this surgery the thought of anything suffering when it is not necessary also brings great distress to my mind.

In America many of us have very diverse blood and background from which we look at things very differently in the United States.

My background of family lines that goes back from Native American tribes as well as Jewish bloods gives me a perspective about life we it comes to how people treat other people and animals. Mixed in that is English, Irish and Swedish as well as French. My strongest ties are the NA and Jewish history and affects my thoughts about life and death.

For me I see the horse slaughter issue as a parallel to the slaughter of Native Americans and the Holocaust of the Jews. The same thinking is parallel with abortion as well. Having power over the masses and killing them because they are less than you are has happened throughout history, but in our own lifetime it is daunting and emotional for me.

So for me I stand up for the horses and the foxes and any other creature whether it be human or animal that is caused to suffer at the hands of man is my fight until my last breath.

Thought I would share this very good YouTube about horses. Worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQZzmA3Q63k