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The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? #116637
07/25/09 03:25 AM
07/25/09 03:25 AM
A
Azenilto  Offline OP
Active Member 2010
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 231
Bessemer, Ala., USA
This article is part of the discussions related to the publication Proclamation! Magazine. See the article that is part of these discussions, “Strange and Unheard of Supposed Comments By Seventh-day Adventists” through the following link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=116362#Post116362

The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel?

Mr. Ratzlaff clearly misunderstands the reasons of God’s choosing the nation of Israel, which is a common deficiency in contemporary Protestant Theology. Many Protestant/Evangelical Christians don’t know exactly the reason for that election of Israel, and due to this lack of comprehension of the matter we see wrong statements, like this of Mr. Ratzlaff, in the article “Does Paul Conflict with Jesus?”:

“There are many indications that Jesus was seeking to move His hearers away from the ritual laws of the old covenant that pointed forward to the Messiah because now He had come. Jesus was seeking to move people away from the old covenant which was a covenant between God and Israel only to the new covenant. The old covenant was designed for the people who lived in the Promised Land. The new covenant, however, was to include people from every nation, kindred and tongue”.

That fact is that there is NO INDICATION of that. Jesus, on the contrary, recommended the most faithful respect to the “minimal” among the commandments, and so to be taught to men (Matt. 5:19):

“Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven”.

In a certain occasion, by the end of His ministry, He even recommended to “the crowds and to His disciples” (Matt. 23:2, 3):

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach”.

See that Jesus reinforced ALL that the Jewish leaders taught should be obeyed, only putting aside their hypocritical do-what-I-say-but-not-what-I-do attitude. That doesn’t seem any intention of having people DEPARTING from the law, as they knew and should practice it.

Besides, if Jesus in any minimal way had diminished the force and importance of “the least” among God’s commandments, He Himself had to be considered the least in God’s kingdom, according to His own declaration in Matt. 5:19.

The Lack of Understanding of God’s Election of Israel

Evangelical/Protestant Christians in general have difficulty in understanding the reasons why God chose Israel as His special people. It was not just for privilege, but for a mission. Israel had to be “IHWH’s witnesses”, the “light of the gentiles . . . to the ends of the Earth” (Isa. 43:10, 11 and 49:6).

Israel’s mission was to proclaim the true God, His law and His plan of salvation to all the surrounding nations, for which God even placed them in the crossroads of three continents—Europe, Asia and Africa. Through this strategically located land (to this day) caravans of merchants would cross to and fro, and the “showcase” nation was to guide these people to the true worship of the true God. Unhappily the situation was inverted: instead of being the teachers of the World, Israel became the learner of how to worship the stone and the wood, with these other peoples.

God continuously tried to attract the nation back to Him, and the New Covenant was first offered to national Israel, as can be seen in Eze. 11:19, 20; 36:26, 27 and Jer. 31:31-33.

Mr. Ratzlaff is wrong when he says that the covenant was established with Israel and only to that nation. He certainly needs to read carefully Isa. 56:2-7:

“Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil.” Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, “The LORD will surely exclude me from his people.” And let not any eunuch complain, “I am only a dry tree.” For this is what the LORD says: “To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant: to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will not be cut off. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-- these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

How come this covenant was intended only for Israel, but God expresses His desire to have the foreigners adopting it, in a context in which He expresses His ideal that ALL NATIONS would join Israel in that covenant, showing such acceptance by the keeping of the Sabbath?

In Psalm 67 we find the result of the wonderful plan that God had to the entire world, IN CASE ISRAEL HAD FULFILLED FAITHFULLY its mission:

“May the nations be glad and sing for joy, for you rule the peoples justly and guide the nations of the earth. May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, that your ways may be known on earth, your salvation among all nations. May the peoples praise you, O God; may all the peoples praise you. May the peoples praise you, O God; may all the peoples praise you. Then the land will yield its harvest, and God, our God, will bless us. God will bless us, and all the ends of the earth will fear him”.



A. G. Brito
Sola Scriptura Ministry
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Azenilto] #116638
07/25/09 03:36 AM
07/25/09 03:36 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
The covenant which God intended to establish with Israel was the New Covenant, not the Old. This is also known as the Abrahamic or Everlasting Covenant. That the law is a part of this commandment is made clear by the fact that it consists of the law being written on the heart. That it applies in New Testament times is made clear by the fact that it is repeated in Hebrews. That the Sabbath is a part of it is clear by logic. Some law is written on the heart, and whatever law this was must be a law which existed in the time of Jeremiah and still existed in the time of the Hebrews. What else could it be but the moral law, or ten commandments? It certainly can't be the case that Hebrews has in mind that the New Covenant consists of the ceremonial law is written on the heart.

Here's another way of seeing that the Ten Commandments is being referred to.

Quote:
7Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law (Isa. 51)


Who is it that knows righteousness? Is it the one in whose heart is written the law.

Here's on more way.

Quote:
17All unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5)


Quote:
4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3)


Unrighteousness is sin, which is transgression of the law. Therefore righteousness is obedience to the law. So to be righteous by faith means to be obedient to the law by faith.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Tom] #116760
07/28/09 08:50 PM
07/28/09 08:50 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, we've discussed this at length before, but I don't remember what you said about the difference between the moral law and the mosaic law. Ellen White makes it clear that the mosaic law is nothing more than a magnified version of the moral law. IOW, the mosaic law is inherent in the moral law in the same way the moral law is inherent in the two great commandments.

Matthew
22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Since "all the law and the prophets" are part and parcel of the two great commandments, how can we say the moral law is more important than the mosaic law? Isn't "all the law" of the same substance when boiled down to the lowest common denominator?

Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Mountain Man] #116775
07/28/09 10:21 PM
07/28/09 10:21 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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which part of the mosaic law are you referring to?

Quote:
Rising, and fixing His eyes upon the plotting elders, Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." Verse 7. And, stooping down, He continued writing. {MH 88.4}
He had not set aside the Mosaic law nor infringed upon the authority of Rome. The accusers were defeated. Now, their robes of pretended holiness torn from them, they stood, guilty and condemned, in the presence of infinite purity. Trembling lest the hidden iniquity of their lives should be laid open to the multitude, with bowed heads and downcast eyes they stole away, leaving their victim with the pitying Saviour. {MH 88.5}


Quote:
After the decision of the council at Jerusalem concerning this question, many were still of this opinion, but did not then push their opposition any farther. The council had, on that occasion, decided that the converts from the Jewish church might observe the ordinances of the Mosaic law if they chose, while those ordinances should not be made obligatory upon converts from the Gentiles. The opposing class now took advantage of this, to urge a distinction between the observers of the ceremonial law and those who did not observe it, holding that the latter were farther from God than the former. {6BC 1111.1} {ST, August 17, 1882 par. 4}
i could have continued but i thought those two points should be enough.


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: teresaq] #116797
07/29/09 03:10 AM
07/29/09 03:10 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
Tom, we've discussed this at length before, but I don't remember what you said about the difference between the moral law and the mosaic law. Ellen White makes it clear that the mosaic law is nothing more than a magnified version of the moral law.


This isn't true. The Mosaic law had several parts, including health laws, ceremonial laws, and instructions of various types. Some parts of it still apply, and some don't.

Quote:
IOW, the mosaic law is inherent in the moral law in the same way the moral law is inherent in the two great commandments.


This isn't true. The moral law is inherent in *some* of the mosaic law. The two great commandments are inherent in *all* of the two great commandments.

I think the following sums up the difference between the two covenants nicely:

Quote:
The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law. "This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ.(PP 372)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Tom] #116805
07/29/09 05:11 AM
07/29/09 05:11 AM
teresaq  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
I think the following sums up the difference between the two covenants nicely:

Quote:
The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5);

but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26.

The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"--the promise of forgiveness of sins and of

the grace of God
to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.

"This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts . . . . I will forgive their iniquity, and will remember their sin no more." Jeremiah 31:33, 34.

The same law that was engraved upon the tables of stone is written by the Holy Spirit upon the tables of the heart. Instead of going about to establish our own righteousness we accept the righteousness of Christ.(PP 372)
are we to struggle day in and day out to "keep" the law?

or are we to let God transform our hearts so that we live the law as naturally as breathing?


Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: teresaq] #116823
07/29/09 04:11 PM
07/29/09 04:11 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Here's what Ellen White wrote about the law of Moses:

Quote:
Moses was commanded to write, as God should bid him, judgments and laws giving minute instruction as to what was required. These directions relating to the duty of the people to God, to one another, and to the stranger were only the principles of the Ten Commandments amplified and given in a specific manner, that none need err. They were designed to guard the sacredness of the ten precepts engraved on the tables of stone. {PP 364.1}

He then came still closer to his people, and would not leave them, who were so readily led astray, with merely the ten precepts of the decalogue. He required Moses to write as he should bid him, judgments and laws, giving minute directions in regard to what he required them to perform, and thereby guarded the ten precepts which he had engraved upon the tables of stone. These specific directions and requirements were given to draw erring man to the obedience of the moral law which he is so prone to transgress. {3SG 299.1}

The ceremonial system was made up of symbols pointing to Christ, to His sacrifice and His priesthood. This ritual law, with its sacrifices and ordinances, was to be performed by the Hebrews until type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Then all the sacrificial offerings were to cease. {PP 365.1}

As the Bible presents two laws, one changeless and eternal, the other provisional and temporary, so there are two covenants. {PP 370.2}

It seems clear to me that the "judgments and laws" are as eternal as the law itself; whereas, the "ritual laws" were provisional and temporary. As such, the "judgments and laws" are not restricted to the COI and the OC. They are universally binding. God writes them in the hearts and minds of those who convert to obeying everything Jesus commanded. See Matthew 28:18-20. Of course, certain aspects of the "judgments and laws" required being under a theocracy (i.e. enforcing capital punishment).

Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Mountain Man] #116831
07/29/09 05:28 PM
07/29/09 05:28 PM
teresaq  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,984
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well then i guess we better go back to stoning because that was one of the judgments.

the judgments start with Exo 21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. through: Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

He required Moses to write as he should bid him, judgments and laws, giving minute directions in regard to what he required them to perform, and thereby guarded the ten precepts which he had engraved upon the tables of stone. These specific directions and requirements were given to draw erring man to the obedience of the moral law... {3SG 299.1}

this was your original post:
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Tom, we've discussed this at length before, but I don't remember what you said about the difference between the moral law and the mosaic law. Ellen White makes it clear that the mosaic law is nothing more than a magnified version of the moral law.
the "mosaic law" is not included in the quotes you provided.

but is included in my post:#116775

Quote:
It seems clear to me that the "judgments and laws" are as eternal as the law itself;...They are universally binding. God writes them in the hearts and minds of those who convert to obeying everything Jesus commanded....



Psa 64:5 ...an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them?

Psa 7:14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief (and his violent dealing) shall return upon his own head.

Psa 7:17 I will praise the LORD according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the LORD most high.
Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: teresaq] #116848
07/30/09 02:15 AM
07/30/09 02:15 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: teresaq
M: Of course, certain aspects of the "judgments and laws" required being under a theocracy (i.e. enforcing capital punishment).

t: well then i guess we better go back to stoning because that was one of the judgments.

Yes, it was one of the judgments while the COI were under a theocracy. But, as I implied above, we are not presently under a theocracy; therefore, God does not expect us to enforce capital punishment.

Originally Posted By: teresaq
M: Ellen White makes it clear that the mosaic law is nothing more than a magnified version of the moral law.

"These [judgments and laws] relating to the duty of the people to God, to one another, and to the stranger were only the principles of the Ten Commandments amplified . . ."

t: the "mosaic law" is not included in the quotes you provided.

As Tom pointed out, the Mosaic Law consists of many things. The "judgments and laws" named above are a large part of it. The ceremonial laws are also a part of it. I was referring specifically to the "judgments and laws". They are "only the principles of the Ten Commandments amplified" and, as such, are as eternal as the moral law itself (including the judgments involving capital punishment).

Re: The Old Covenant and Its Law—Only for Israel? [Re: Mountain Man] #116849
07/30/09 02:19 AM
07/30/09 02:19 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
In light of what I have posted above, and in answer to the question that serves as title for this thread (The Old Covenant and Its Law — Only for Israel?), I would like to say, No.

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