Mike,
3 pages and over 36 hours have elapsed and not 1 single Bible verse has been provided to support your position of one losing their salvation over eating chicken, turkey, or salmon. You asked me to provide Bible verses and I did so, yet when I have asked you for close to 2 days their is not 1 verse. Are you able to provide Bible verses or not to support your position?
God Bless,
Will

Will, as you know, the Bible doesn't forbid eating kosher prepared meat. But, as you also know, it does contain principles that forbid health destroying habits not specifically mentioned in the Bible (i.e., smoking, dope and drugs). The same principles that forbid these things also apply to anything that hinders good health. Arguing that since the air we breathe is harmful it is, therefore, okay to eat beef, turkey and chicken because, in spite of the fact they are infested with cancer causing toxins and impurities, that it is no worse than the air we breathe - this type of argument flies in the face of reason and common sense.

I am reposting the texts I provided on page one, and then again on page two, when you first asked me to support Sister White's insights regarding diet and salvation from the Bible. By the way, these are the same verses that you and I have both used to help others give up smoking and drugs. I believe Sister White's thoughts on veganism and last day events are based on the same cause and effect principles that apply to drugs or any other health destroying habit not specifically prohibited by God in the Bible. These passages make it clear that if we willfully destroy our health, our body temple, then we are in jeopardy of losing our souls.

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1 Corinthians
3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Corinthians
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians
10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

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oops!! Apparently we both must have posted at the same time. Accept my humble aplogies since I don't think it is allowed to delete your own posts,so I left mine up there..

I agree Mike that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit,and I also agree that smoking, drugs, alcohol, and abuse of prescription drugs is contrary to Scripture as I do not recall Jesus smoking or doing any of theabove, and also the Bible strongly opposes any strong drink etc etc.

I also understand that eating meat from sickly animals is not only unhealthy, but not the wisest choice. The difference is if the animals are sickly.

The choice is a persons to make. Today I would strongly recommend not to go and eat a burger, or eat that salmon at Olive Garden. Even the fish is farmed and fed fish parts to fatten them up.

If you get deep sea fish that is healthy, and clean, and it is offered to you for dinner over at family's house I would eat and have done so (1X a year). Its the crab,shrimp,and lobster I don't touch because they are not clean, and the same goes for any unclean meat. Even the beef I don;t eat because its unhealthy, and the animals are usually stressed out, have a large amount of adrenalin running through their body which is in the meat(I believe they know what is going to happen to them at these places)


A Christian person who has access to clean meats from a small farmer and the quality is excellent, and the animals are healthy and fed either real grain or eat the grass and everything is Ok and buys steak or whatever cut from the farmer is not harming their bodies. Its a whole other areana if all you eat every day is meat meat meat meat..Then you risk colon cancer, heart problems, and things of that nature.
God Bless,
Will

Shelley, God is infinitely good and any news He has for us is infinitely good. Sometimes there are things which are difficult to understand. You don't seem to have a problem with the Bible, in spite of the fact that there are many places, particularly in the Old Testament, that appear to paint a less than flattering picture of God.

Given that the same lovely Jesus whose character we love as revealed in the Gospels inspired His prophets, we can expect that said prophet would also be sharing with us Good News. My favorite book is the Desire of Ages. I cannot recommend it highly enough. It portrays such a positive picture of God, I can't imagine why anyone would not be encouraged in reading it. That book was a catharsis for me in a very difficult time in my life. It portrays a God who understands me profoundly and simpathizes with me completely.

Fair enough. I disagree that any meat is safe to eat today. Back in Sister White's time meat was deemed wholly unfit for human consumption, take into consideration that our best meat is more unfit than the worst meat at that time, and it is clear to me that no meat today is healthy enough to risk eating. And that applies to kosher meat, which most people do not eat.

If refusing to quit smoking or taking drugs, when we know it is forbidden (in principle) by the word of God, I believe it constitutes a violation of the law of God and is, therefore, just cause to keep us out of heaven. Would you agree? If so, then please explain why the same principle doesn't apply to eating meat that is not kosher and otherwise unfit for human consumption.

Also, I am still interested in your position regarding the following questions I posted earlier:

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Do you believe a person will burn in hell if they refuse to live in harmony with the will of God? If so, then what, in your mind, constitutes the will of God? And, do you feel Sister White's counsel on diet contradicts the law of God? If so, would you be willing to explain how and why? Where in the Bible does it say it is lawful to eat meat even if it is sickly and causes cancer and heart disease?

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Tom, thanks for recommending The Desire of Ages. I did try to read it last year but found it difficult to read. The language threw me off and I just could not get into it. My husband did not have a problem with it though.

On the other hand, I read the Great Controversy and could not put it down. My husband, however, found it difficult to get into and did not read it. Funny isn’t it, maybe it’s a personality thing.

I have since acquired a copy of the "Messiah", a contemporary version of The Desire of Ages. I had forgotten about it and will give it a go now that you have reminded me.

Since becoming a follower of the one and only God who created me I have run acros things both in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy that go against what I WANT TO DO... I pray that instead of having this reaction to something that goes against what we want to do or what we believe is right that we continue to pray and study until we have a better idea of what God wants for our lives in order to serve Him with all of our mind, body and soul. What we eat does affect our mind and the choices we make. This has been proven. This is why God is seeking to bring us back to the original diet He have to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve cbose to eat what they wanted and we are all reaping the results of that choice. Let us all please take the time to study into why God has given us this Health message at this time. He is preparing a people to stand in the last days for Him. Our minds have to be clear in order to discern the true from the false.

Tom, of course, God isn't fighting to keep souls out of heaven. He has been, still is, and will continue do whatever it takes to influence us to accept Jesus as our personal Saviour, so that He can admit us to heaven without fear of failure, knowing that "affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. God will force no one to be in heaven who doesn't want to be there. You ask, Who wouldn't want to be there? Anyone who is unwilling to embrace Jesus here and now, who is unwilling to walk the narrow way, who is unwilling to take up his cross and deny sin, self and Satan, who is unwilling to live in harmony with the law of God. That's who wouldn't want to live in heaven.

And there's plenty of people like that, but who don't know it right now. Sounds strange, but it's painfully true. Think of the rich young ruler. He was genuinely attracted to Jesus, but he was unwilling to part with his worldly possessions and to obey the call to follow Jesus. Christianity involves a cross, but most people don't want to be reminded of the cross. It seems so legalistic, so unappealing, so bloody, so cruel and gruesome. A lot of people feel the same way about words like sin, obedience, judgment, punishment, and hell. They would rather talk about forgiveness, love, mercy, compassion, and kindness. But it’s all the same to God. Remember, the wrath of God is love. Mercy and justice are two sides of the same coin, the coin of love.

In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing legalistic or unappealing about the cross of Christ, about strictly obeying the law of God, about consistently denying myself to serve others, about rigidly refusing to indulge health destroying habits that, not only hinder my ability to hear the voice of God speaking to my soul, but is also a violation of the basic laws of nature and common sense. I am staunchly unwilling to do anything that is not in harmony with the will of God. I love Jesus too much to disobey Him, and He loves me too much to let me down, to withhold the power to obey Him.

Does all this talk about uncompromising obedience sound like heavy drudgery to you? Does it seem legalistic and unChristlike? devoid of love, sympathy, compassion, and the gentle graces of God? I hope not. Since you cannot see me or hear me speaking right now, you cannot discern my heart, you cannot read my body language, the tone of my voice, or the look on my face, thus it might be difficult for you to sense just how passionate, how jealous, I am about our loving Saviour and Friend, and so you might be tempted to read this post with disdain or disgust. Again, I hope not.

My face is lit up like a Christmas tree as I write these things. I know where I came from, I know the depths of despair, depression, discouragement. I know what it’s like to live in sin and disobedience, to live without Christ in my heart. I know what it’s like to run from God, to look over my shoulder and to see Him following me like an abandoned puppy. It hurt like hell, and yet I kept on running, and He kept on chasing after me. Every time I indulged this or that sin, there He was, standing there crying His heart out, and for what? For me! That’s right, for me.

Finally, one day, I couldn’t stand it any more. Breaking His heart, over and over again, was just too much. In the end, it was my heart that was broken, and in its place (please listen to this, this is the part that blows my mind), in place of my broken heart, Jesus gave me a new heart, a brand new heart, a heart full of love and joy and happiness. Praise God. Thank you, Jesus. My life has never been the same. Which is good. And what about sin? I think sin is the most foul, disgusting, loathsome, hateful thing in the world. And I refuse to give it one square inch in my heart. My heart is my home for Jesus, and I have given Him every inch of it. There’s no room left for anything else, especially not sin. I would rather die than let sin crowd Jesus out of my heart. God forbid. I'm not willing to go back there again. No way.

Mike, I can't think of God as being like an abandoned puppy. In any circumstance.