Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me.

By the way, you have yet to explain why Jesus burned alive the two bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayers. You hinted, or so it seemed, at it being a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, that He didn't intend for them to burned alive. If so, what do you mean?

"When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come." Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}
It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain. {COL 69.2}

I think it breaks down into having faith in God that he knows who are safe to save and that the power Christ's death and resurrection is sufficent to transform those afflicted by sin who willingly accept him into their hearts.

M: Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me.

T: You used the term "bloodthirsty for violence," and explained that what you meant by that is "jealous for justice." This seems pretty much the definition of "synonym," so I don't see how I could be much off base here.

This mighty God pledges his immutable word that those who love and trust him shall not want any good thing. But he declares that he will surely punish the transgressors of his law. The wickedness of the race is not forgotten nor overlooked because God does not at once visit them with judgments. Each century of profligacy and rebellion is treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 13}

When the scribes and Pharisees rejected the teachings of Christ, he bade them fill up the iniquity of their fathers, that it might be time for God to work; that the message of glad tidings might be given to others, who would joyfully receive it. When at last the divine forbearance was exhausted, God's wrath fell signally upon a people who had rejected so great light. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 14}

The Lord does not delight in vengeance, though he executes judgment upon the transgressors of his law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some, he must cut off those who have become hardened in sin. Says the prophet Isaiah: "The Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work, and bring to pass his act, his strange act." The work of wrath and destruction is indeed a strange, unwelcome work for Him who is infinite in love. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 15}

Again, the divine message comes to Ezekiel: "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live." The very fact of God's unwillingness to punish sinners shows the enormity of the sins that call forth his judgments. And yet to every transgressor of his holy law is addressed that earnest, pleading call, "Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?" {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 16}

The records of sacred history declare, that while God is a God of justice, strict to mark iniquity, and strong to punish the sinner, he is also a God of truth, compassion, and abundant mercy. While he visits judgments upon the transgressors of his law and the enemies of his people, he will protect those who respect his statutes and show kindness to his chosen. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 17}

When he commanded that a war of extermination be waged against Amalek, he also directed that the Kenites, who dwell among them, should be spared, because they had shown mercy to Israel in their distress. Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, and a prince among the Kenites, had joined Israel soon after the latter came out of Egypt. His presence and counsel at that time was of great value to the Hebrews. Moses afterward urged Hobab, the son of Jethro, to accompany them in their journeyings through the wilderness, saying: "We are journeying unto the place of which the Lord said, I will give it you. Come thou with us, and we will do thee good; for the Lord hath spoken good concerning Israel." {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 18}

The utter destruction of the people of Jericho was but a fulfillment of the commands previously given through Moses concerning the inhabitants of Canaan: “Thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them.” . . . To many these commands seem to be contrary to the spirit of love and mercy enjoined in other portions of the Bible, but they were in truth the dictates of infinite wisdom and goodness. . . . The Canaanites had abandoned themselves to the foulest and most debasing heathenism, and it was necessary that the land should be cleared of what would so surely prevent the fulfillment of God’s gracious purposes. —Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 488-492. {CTr 134.6}

M: By the way, you have yet to explain why Jesus burned alive the two bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayers. You hinted, or so it seemed, at it being a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, that He didn't intend for them to burned alive. If so, what do you mean?

T: I answered by saying that if we wish to know what God is like, we should look to Jesus Christ. . . What had a profound impact on me were the simple words, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."

Twice Ahaziah sent a company of soldiers to intimidate the prophet, and twice the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments. The third company of soldiers humbled themselves before God; and their captain, as he approached the Lord's messenger, "fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight." {RH, January 15, 1914 par. 4}

If we are to look to Christ and perfectly reproduce His character, then wouldn't it follow if He directly kills people we should too? Providing it is the right time and the right spirit as Elijah and others you mentioned had. For if people had the right spirit and in the past and you believe rightly were hacking people to pieces and setting them on fire, wouldn't those who have the perfect character of Christ reproduced in them do the same? If they were doing right, then it would follow that those who do even more perfectly right would do those and more things. The right spirit would be perfectly reproduced to be able to set people on fire.

As they reasoned in Noah's day they reason today, when the warning message is proclaimed to fear God and keep His commandments. The wrath of God is soon to fall on all the sinful and disobedient, and they will perish in the general conflagration. Professed servants of Christ who are unfaithful, who do not reverence God and with fear prepare for the terrible future event, will lull themselves to carnal security with their fallacious reasoning, as they did in Noah's day. "God is too good and too merciful [they reason] to save just a few who keep the Sabbath and believe the message of warning. The great men and the good men, the philosophers and men of wisdom would see the Sabbath and the shortness of time, if it were true." They do not believe a merciful God who made men will consume them with fire because they do not believe the warnings given. This, they reason, is not in accordance with God. . . . {12MR 207.1}

God's love is represented in our day as being of such a character as would forbid His destroying the sinner. Men reason from their own low standard of right and justice. "Thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself" (Psalm 50:21). They measure God by themselves. They reason as to how they would act under the circumstances and decide God would do as they imagine they would do. {12MR 207.2}

God's goodness and long forbearance, His patience and mercy exercised to His subjects, will not hinder Him from punishing the sinner who refused to be obedient to His requirements. It is not for a man--a criminal against God's holy law, pardoned only through the great sacrifice He made in giving His Son to die for the guilty because His law was changeless--to dictate to God. After all this effort on the part of God to preserve the sacred and exalted character of His law, if men, through the sophistry of the devil, turn the mercy and condescension of God into a curse, they must suffer the penalty. Because Christ died they consider they have liberty to transgress God's holy law that condemns the transgressor, and would complain of its strictness and its penalty as severe and unlike God. They are uttering the words Satan utters to millions, to quiet their conscience in rebellion against God. {12MR 208.1}

In no kingdom or government is it left to the lawbreakers to say what punishment is to be executed against those who have broken the law. All we have, all the bounties of His grace which we possess, we owe to God. The aggravating character of sin against such a God cannot be estimated any more than the heavens can be measured with a span. God is a moral governor as well as a Father. He is the Lawgiver. He makes and executes His laws. Law that has no penalty is of no force. {12MR 208.2}

The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {12MR 208.3}

M: Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me.

T: You used the term "bloodthirsty for violence," and explained that what you meant by that is "jealous for justice." This seems pretty much the definition of "synonym," so I don't see how I could be much off base here.

M:You seem to be saying, "Yes, absolutely, Mike believes God is bloodthirsty for violence." Does it matter to you, though, that I just said, "Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me"?

Do you believe God is jealous for justice? If so, do you believe He "executes justice and judgment" and acts of punishment?...

M: Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me.

T: You used the term "bloodthirsty for violence," and explained that what you meant by that is "jealous for justice." This seems pretty much the definition of "synonym," so I don't see how I could be much off base here.

M: You seem to be saying, "Yes, absolutely, Mike believes God is bloodthirsty for violence." Does it matter to you, though, that I just said, "Too bad. You couldn't be more wrong about me"?

T: You used the phrase "bloodthirsty for violence" and you explained that you meant by this that God is "jealous for justice." This makes these synonyms, right. Now you say I couldn't be more wrong about you. Why?

M: Do you believe God is jealous for justice? If so, do you believe He "executes justice and judgment" and acts of punishment? [quote omitted by Tom]

T: Regarding if I think God is "jealous for justice," certainly, but this means something different for you and I, as you think of justice in terms of retributive justice, of causing pain, destruction and death. We differ in how we perceive justice, God's character, and God's kingdom.

The same angel who had left the royal courts of heaven to rescue Peter from the power of his persecutor, had been the messenger of wrath and judgment to Herod. The angel smote Peter to arouse him from slumber; but it was with a different stroke that he smote the wicked king, bringing mortal disease upon him. God poured contempt upon Herod's pride, and his person, which he had exhibited decked in shining apparel before the admiring gaze of the people, was eaten by worms, and putrefied while yet alive. Herod died in great agony of mind and body, under the retributive justice of God. {SR 299.2}

This demonstration of divine judgment had a mighty influence upon the people. While the apostle of Christ had been miraculously delivered from prison and death, his persecutor had been stricken down by the curse of God. The news was borne to all lands, and was the means of bringing many to believe on Christ. {SR 300.1}

T: I don't believe that death and destruction are parts of God's character and kingdom, nor do I believe that justice in Scripture primarily refers to retributive justice. I also do not believe that justice involves causing pain to others by setting them on fire to burn alive in order to punish them. We also differ in how we think we should proceed in order to understand these things. I believe that to understand God, we need to know Jesus Christ, as I believe Jesus Christ's mission was the revelation of God, and that He is the clearest revelation of God, by far. Your approach is to grab texts from here and there, most (all?) of which do not deal with Christ's earthly mission at all. So besides having different concepts regarding justice, God's character, and God's kingdom, we also have different concepts in regards to what a proper approach is to arriving at the truth.

There are those who will question God's love and His justice in visiting so severe punishment for words spoken in the heat of passion. But both love and justice require it to be shown that utterances prompted by malice against God are a great sin. The retribution visited upon the first offender would be a warning to others, that God's name is to be held in reverence. But had this man's sin been permitted to pass unpunished, others would have been demoralized; and as the result many lives must eventually have been sacrificed. {PP 408.2}

And yet what swift and severe retribution was visited upon them for their transgressions! The infinite love of God has been manifested in the gift of His only-begotten Son to redeem a lost race. Christ came to the earth to reveal to men the character of His Father, and His life was filled with deeds of divine tenderness and compassion. And yet Christ Himself declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." Matthew 5:18. The same voice that with patient, loving entreaty invites the sinner to come to Him and find pardon and peace, will in the judgment bid the rejecters of His mercy, "Depart from Me, ye cursed." Matthew 25:41. In all the Bible, God is represented not only as a tender father but as a righteous judge. Though He delights in showing mercy, and "forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin," yet He "will by no means clear the guilty." Exodus 34:7. {PP 469}

The forbearance that God has exercised toward the wicked, emboldens men in transgression; but their punishment will be none the less certain and terrible for being long delayed. . . . While He does not delight in vengeance, He will execute judgment upon the transgressors of His law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some He must cut off those who become hardened in sin. . . . And the very fact of His reluctance to execute justice testifies to the enormity of the sins that call forth His judgments and to the severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor. {CC 155.4}

God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. The death of the spotless Son of God testifies that "the wages of sin is death," that every violation of God's law must receive its just retribution. Christ the sinless became sin for man. He bore the guilt of transgression, and the hiding of His Father's face, until His heart was broken and His life crushed out. All this sacrifice was made that sinners might be redeemed. In no other way could man be freed from the penalty of sin. And every soul that refuses to become a partaker of the atonement provided at such a cost must bear in his own person the guilt and punishment of transgression. {GC 539.3}

Again, more wonderful than his mercy toward Israel is the love which Christ has manifested in his infinite sacrifice to redeem a lost race. His earthly life was filled with deeds of divine tenderness and compassion. And yet Christ himself plainly declares, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled." While he tells us of the love of God, he also pictures the awful scenes of the Judgment and the retribution that shall be visited upon the wicked. In all the Bible, God is presented not only as a being of mercy and benevolence, but as a God of strict and impartial justice. {ST, March 24, 1881 par. 2}

The universe of heaven, and the angels of God, were watching for the exhibition of justice, but when the unfallen worlds expected retribution to be administered, mercy prevailed, and the counsel of God was with the Prince of heaven. . . God sent his Son into the world, not to pass sentence of condemnation upon a rebellious race, but to make manifest his love, and to hold out the hope of eternal life to those who should believe in his Son. {ST, March 5, 1896 par. 5}

Here was love, and amazing grace that triumphed over justice. Retribution fell upon no less a personage than the Son of the Infinite God, and the universe of heaven rejoiced in the glory of God's benevolence and self-denial in giving the Prince of heaven to our world. Such love was beyond the comprehension of heavenly angels. {ST, March 5, 1896 par. 6}

According to justice and retribution God might have placed in the hands of his angelic ministers the vials of his wrath, to be poured out upon a rebellious world, to punish the inhabitants for their treatment of the Prince of heaven. But he did not do this. "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." . . . His object was to reconcile the prerogatives of justice and mercy, and let each stand separate in its dignity, yet united. His mercy was not weakness, but a terrible power to punish sin because it is sin; yet a power to draw to it the love of humanity. Through Christ Justice is enabled to forgive without sacrificing one jot of its exalted holiness. {GCB, October 1, 1899 par. 21}

Justice and Mercy stood apart, in opposition to each other, separated by a wide gulf. The Lord our Redeemer clothed his divinity with humanity, and wrought out in behalf of man a character that was without spot or blemish. He planted his cross midway between heaven and earth, and made it the object of attraction which reached both ways, drawing both Justice and Mercy across the gulf. Justice moved from its exalted throne, and with all the armies of heaven approached the cross. There it saw One equal with God bearing the penalty for all injustice and sin. With perfect satisfaction Justice bowed in reverence at the cross, saying, It is enough. {GCB, October 1, 1899 par. 22}

This mighty God pledges his immutable word that those who love and trust him shall not want any good thing. But he declares that he will surely punish the transgressors of his law. The wickedness of the race is not forgotten nor overlooked because God does not at once visit them with judgments. Each century of profligacy and rebellion is treasuring up wrath against the day of wrath. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 13}

When the scribes and Pharisees rejected the teachings of Christ, he bade them fill up the iniquity of their fathers, that it might be time for God to work; that the message of glad tidings might be given to others, who would joyfully receive it. When at last the divine forbearance was exhausted, God's wrath fell signally upon a people who had rejected so great light. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 14}

The Lord does not delight in vengeance, though he executes judgment upon the transgressors of his law. He is forced to do this, to preserve the inhabitants of the earth from utter depravity and ruin. In order to save some, he must cut off those who have become hardened in sin. Says the prophet Isaiah: "The Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work, and bring to pass his act, his strange act." The work of wrath and destruction is indeed a strange, unwelcome work for Him who is infinite in love. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 15}

Again, the divine message comes to Ezekiel: "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live." The very fact of God's unwillingness to punish sinners shows the enormity of the sins that call forth his judgments. And yet to every transgressor of his holy law is addressed that earnest, pleading call, "Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?" {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 16}

The records of sacred history declare, that while God is a God of justice, strict to mark iniquity, and strong to punish the sinner, he is also a God of truth, compassion, and abundant mercy. While he visits judgments upon the transgressors of his law and the enemies of his people, he will protect those who respect his statutes and show kindness to his chosen. {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 17}

When he commanded that a war of extermination be waged against Amalek, he also directed that the Kenites, who dwell among them, should be spared, because they had shown mercy to Israel in their distress. Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses, and a prince among the Kenites, had joined Israel soon after the latter came out of Egypt. His presence and counsel at that time was of great value to the Hebrews. Moses afterward urged Hobab, the son of Jethro, to accompany them in their journeyings through the wilderness, saying: "We are journeying unto the place of which the Lord said, I will give it you. Come thou with us, and we will do thee good; for the Lord hath spoken good concerning Israel." {ST, August 24, 1882 par. 18}

The utter destruction of the people of Jericho was but a fulfillment of the commands previously given through Moses concerning the inhabitants of Canaan: “Thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them.” . . . To many these commands seem to be contrary to the spirit of love and mercy enjoined in other portions of the Bible, but they were in truth the dictates of infinite wisdom and goodness. . . . The Canaanites had abandoned themselves to the foulest and most debasing heathenism, and it was necessary that the land should be cleared of what would so surely prevent the fulfillment of God’s gracious purposes. —Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 488-492. {CTr 134.6}

M: By the way, you have yet to explain why Jesus burned alive the two bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayers. You hinted, or so it seemed, at it being a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, that He didn't intend for them to burned alive. If so, what do you mean?

T: I answered by saying that if we wish to know what God is like, we should look to Jesus Christ. . . What had a profound impact on me were the simple words, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."

Twice Ahaziah sent a company of soldiers to intimidate the prophet, and twice the wrath of an offended God fell upon them in judgments. The third company of soldiers humbled themselves before God; and their captain, as he approached the Lord's messenger, "fell on his knees before Elijah, and besought him, and said unto him, O man of God, I pray thee, let my life, and the life of these fifty thy servants, be precious in thy sight. Behold, there came fire down from heaven, and burnt up the two captains of the former fifties with their fifties: therefore let my life now be precious in thy sight." {RH, January 15, 1914 par. 4}

Amen! However, during Satan's rebellion in heaven and before Jesus paid our sin debt of death on the cross, holy angels made the decision to serve God with all of their hearts. What was the source of their "power"? What motivated and empowered them to be loyal and obedient?