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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12654
02/25/05 01:51 AM
02/25/05 01:51 AM
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OP
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While we're waiting on Shelley's homework, would anyone else care to answer the questions listed above?
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12655
02/25/05 01:46 PM
02/25/05 01:46 PM
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Australia
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Well, here it is. I probably did not answer the questions as you would like. At this point in time, however, it is the best I can do. quote:
But Shelley, at what point would you be willing to sweat blood, if need be, to resist sinning? Believing that you cannot completely crucify your imperfections has, I would think, the potential of weakening your resolve to resist giving in to temptation. "Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin." Heb 12:4. I am asking these questions because I am interested in learning more about your view.
A. I don’t know at what point I would be willing to sweat blood. I do the best that I can with the knowledge that I have got. God has changed my heart, as a result, I now desire to follow his commandments, to do what is right, and trust that He will continue to mould me into the person that he wants me to be. God does the changing, not me. It is in His hands and I refuse to beat myself up or stress over every little mistake that I make.
1. In light of the Steps to Christ paragraph quoted above, what do you consider an unknown character defect?
A. In light of the EGW statement I consider an unknown character defect as something that has not yet been bought to my conscious mind. When these things are bought to mind, I do not feel as EGW says (loathe myself). As a parent, I discipline my children in love and would hate it if they loathed themselves every time they did something wrong. God is a loving father and I do not believe He wants us to loath ourselves.
2. How do you explain, in light of what you believe about retaining imperfections, the following promises:
Romans
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
A. God does not take us out of the world or make us robots—we will still feel like sinning, and sometimes we will sin. The difference is that before we were saved we were slaves to our sinful nature, but now we can choose to live for Christ. The good news is through faith in Jesus Christ we stand acquitted.
1 Corinthians
10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
A. I guess if we are continually plugged into God we will be able to resist all temptations. Having said that, how does a mere human stay permanently plugged into God? Is it possible to be permanently pugged into God?
Galatians
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
A. Walking in the Spirit involves the desire to hear, to learn and the readiness to obey God’s Word. Mm, with a mind full of Christ it would be much easier to control our selfish desires. How do we walk in the spirit 24/7. Mike, what happens when we fail?
1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
A. Reading these two verses I don’t think they mean that the individual has totally ceased from sin. I think it means because we have chosen to be willing to suffer as Christ, sin has lost its power to defeat us. The will of God becomes more important and sinful pleasures become less important.
2 Peter
1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
A. The section surrounding this verse seems to be referring to growing in the knowledge of God. Paul appears to be saying If you belong to the Lord and the work that you do backs up your claim to be chosen by God you will never be led astray by false teachings. It does not appear to be referring to retaining imperfections.
1 John
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
A. The sins that are mentioned in this section are breaking God’s commandments. Do people sin in other ways? What about unknown sins or sins of ignorance.
Mike, do you believe that true Christians do not or cannot sin?
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12656
02/26/05 04:29 AM
02/26/05 04:29 AM
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OP
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Shelley, thank you for sharing your thoughts. Here's what I posted earlier regarding the same things. quote:
Will, this promise [1 John 2:1] applies when we commit a known sin, and thank God for this promise, because most of us backslide pretty regularly. But I believe we need to study this text in its immediate context. John isn’t saying you will sin, but rather, if we sin. The word “if” implies a conditional aspect. Ascertaining the condition, therefore, is necessary in order to correctly understand the promise.
What is the promise? If we sin, Jesus acts as our advocate, because He is the propitiation for our sin. This promise assumes, of course, we have repented of our sin, because Jesus cannot apply the benefits of His blood to atone for our sin if we refuse to repent. And this promise only applies to someone who has committed a known sin, which means we have to sin in order to claim it. Sinning, therefore, is the conditional aspect of 1 John 2:1.
But salvation promises more than merely repentance and forgiveness, it promises born again believers freedom from sinning – now and forever. And, once again, these types of promises (i.e., freedom from sinning) imply a conditional aspect, namely, that we are dead to sin and awake to righteousness. To be free from sin we must be dead to sin, self and Satan.
But most importantly, we must be connected to Jesus, we must walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, we must continually partake of the divine nature. John and Peter make it clear that it is impossible to commit a known sin if we are abiding in Christ, if we are connected to Him, if we are partaking of the divine nature. To commit a known sin, therefore, we must stop abiding in Jesus, and stop partaking of the divine nature.
And, I might add, we are always free to let go of Jesus and commit a known sin. Another question we should ask at this point - What is the difference between committing a known sin intentionally and unintentionally? Are the dynamics, or the mechanics, the same? That is, do both require taking our eyes off Jesus? Or, is it possible to be firmly connected to Christ, partaking of the divine nature, and still commit a known sin?
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12657
02/26/05 04:40 AM
02/26/05 04:40 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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BC, Canada
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It boils down to knowing, and if you don't know then how could you know.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12658
02/25/05 06:20 PM
02/25/05 06:20 PM
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OP
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Good point, Will. But the following quote clearly says none of our defects are considered unknown once God reveals them. And, according to this quote, God reveals every defect of character with one ray of glory. This means, then, we cannot commit a sin of ignorance, as it relates to a defective trait of character, because God has revealed them already. That is, since God has revealed our defects we cannot indulge them and not realize it.
SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}
Of course, this doesn't mean we are incapable of unintentionally, or even intentionally, taking our eyes off Jesus and committing a known sin. But we are not free to sin until we are free from sin. Before we are born again we are slaves of sin, we cannot not sin. But after we are born again we are free to sin. However, according to the Bible, in order to commit a known sin we first disconnect from Jesus, which we are always free to do. Once disconnected all we can do is sin.
With the Setps to Christ quote above in mind what counts as an unknown sin, a sin of ignorance? It cannot have anything to do with our defective traits of character, because God has already revealed them to us. So, what is it? I would like to suggest that, in such cases, an unknown sin would have to involve things that are learned intellectually - like diet and the sabbath. A person can be born again, be aware of and overcome their defective traits of character, but not realize that eating unclean animals or working on the sabbath is a sin.
What do the rest of you think?
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12659
02/25/05 06:53 PM
02/25/05 06:53 PM
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When God reveals them top you then you will definitely know.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12660
02/25/05 07:15 PM
02/25/05 07:15 PM
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OP
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Reveals what? when? Are you referring to our defective traits of character? or, intellectual things like diet and the sabbath?
One ray of the glory of God is enough to reveal to us every one of our defects. Does this happen gradually or suddenly? Does it happen before or after we are born again? What is the context of this Steps to Christ quote?
SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12661
02/25/05 07:27 PM
02/25/05 07:27 PM
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12662
02/25/05 07:32 PM
02/25/05 07:32 PM
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OP
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quote:
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character.
I don't know? How long does it take to penetrate the soul? Can we experience the miralce of rebirth before it penetrates the soul? Does the context of the quote shed any more light?
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Re: What's the difference between being tempted and being guilty?
#12663
02/25/05 07:41 PM
02/25/05 07:41 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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BC, Canada
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No mention of if its all at once.
God Bless,
WIll
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